"Welcome to Reality" --- A Buttmunch's Perspective on Casey

re: "Welcome to Reality" --- A Buttmunch's Perspective on Casey

William — Fri, 14 May 2004 21:54:00 GMT

TS, thanks for pointing that out, seriously. I mean, getting a speaking gig at MDC isn't little league. Getting TWO MS MVP awards isn't little league either. MeToo would have everyone believe it's b/c he's got a bunch of uncritical adoring 'sycophants' like everyone here. He's all about explaining why Casey got shot down two whole times but has NO (0) answers as to why he gets hired all the time. Before he went to Milwaukee, my company wanted to hire him based solely on the stuff at B & B because it was undeniable his game is strong. It really sucked when we found out that he was already hired.

There's not a person that saw him speak at MDC that wouldn't recommend him for a job and that Buttmunch MeToo seems to get lost on all the positives.

re: "Welcome to Reality" --- A Buttmunch's Perspective on Casey

William — Fri, 14 May 2004 20:14:00 GMT

Hi TS. Nope not on company time here, speaking for myself anyway. :) I've been at home during this whole thing on temp leave helping with a friends funeral. So I've had plenty of time to post. That being said if we ever need small device work done Casey will be the first person I recommend for the job, hands down.

re: "Welcome to Reality" --- A Buttmunch's Perspective on Casey

William — Fri, 14 May 2004 19:46:00 GMT

How many of you guys are doing this on "company time?" :) Looks like a lot of effort/time, but (I may be biased) for a good cause! I commend you, Bill & Andy & anyone else that has added anything in support of Casey.

And I never imagined my butt would cause such controversy! I kinda like it. :)

I also wanted to add to a point that Bill made... Casey is actually on a contract right now for which he was hired because he was noticed at his impressive presentation in SanFrancisco. The guy was present and approached him afterward. He must not have seen his "offensive" website, but it must have been enough that he knew talent when he encountered it!

re: "Welcome to Reality" --- A Buttmunch's Perspective on Casey

William — Fri, 14 May 2004 19:04:00 GMT

Yes, this is quite simple and you are absolutely right. The whole point of all of this was that the criteria were silly. I'll also bet that you don't get written emails describing why they didn't choose you, they just politely bow out.

That's what annoyed me about MeToo. It's pretty clear the discussion was centered around the validity of their concerns. You see it, and so did everyone else but MeToo. There was another email that didn't reference interacting with clients, but that's not really the point. Casey even points out that later in life, he may need to change but for now, being that he's without wife and child, all he has to do is feed Casey and KittyKitty so it's all good. And to be honest, and Fortune 500 company or other company that doesn't hire him really needs to look over to the right hand side of his web site to see why that's a poor decision.

Thank Mike.

re: "Welcome to Reality" --- A Buttmunch's Perspective on Casey

William — Fri, 14 May 2004 18:48:00 GMT

"Ok so Not Me say I develop a porn site in php on a contract to the company that wants a porn site. Three months later I get a job offer to do Php development and I point them to that web site and say "I developed this, here is an example of my work.". They get offended and say we aren't hiring you because you developed a porn site. That's descrimination based on their personal moral ideals. "

If I'm not mistaken, the reason given in the email to Casey is that this job had something to do with interfacing with their clients. From what I read, that's what they were concerned about. Maybe they were concerned that Casey might be sending pics of his girlfriend's ass to their clients. I dunno, but I don't think it was that they were personally bothered by his choice of pics.

So I think it boils down to they had questions about his professionalism, not his taste in photos or his viewpoints. Whether or not their concerns are valid has been done to death, so there is no point in arguing that.

I'm a consultant myself and a handful of my clients are stuffy Fortune 500 companies. I can absolutely guarantee you that many of them hire soley on perceived professionalism. I could be a raging alcholic who abuses his wife and molests little children, but as long as they don't see that and I appear to fit within their mold then I get the job.

Does the suit and tie I wear make me a better developer? Of course not, but I wear it because if I don't then that would set little alarm bells off in their tiny little HR heads. And that might cost me a gig. So, it's a small price to pay. I got a family to feed and career to tend to, so I present myself according to what they want to see.

re: "Welcome to Reality" --- A Buttmunch's Perspective on Casey

William — Fri, 14 May 2004 18:15:00 GMT

Well said Andy, and I couldn't agree with you more.

It's funny how this guy launched into all of this and doesn't once address my original points. It's not that they aren't allowed to discriminate or judge, it's just that if they do, their being foolish. The dude gets all mad, calls everyone here sycophants, then says it's just me, but I call him a Buttmunch and his feelings get hurt. Then he starts whole "Reality" stuff. I'm really glad the world has him to tell us how it really is. And he's so into reality that he repeatedley misstatements my arguments, doesn't answer anything rebutting his nonsense and takes it back to the old school with a quote that wasn't nearly as funny or profound as he thinks, even when it wasn't cliche.

Since he can't speak to one point anyone made, it shows how vacuous his whole arguement is...hope vacuous doesn't hurt MeToos tender little feelings.

Anyway, I'm glad you posted, you make a lot of sense and MeToo was getting really boring

re: "Welcome to Reality" --- A Buttmunch's Perspective on Casey

William — Fri, 14 May 2004 17:28:00 GMT

Ok so Not Me say I develop a porn site in php on a contract to the company that wants a porn site. Three months later I get a job offer to do Php development and I point them to that web site and say "I developed this, here is an example of my work.". They get offended and say we aren't hiring you because you developed a porn site. That's descrimination based on their personal moral ideals.

Casey points people to his site for examples of his work, specifically the articles and site layout/design. To desrimate against him for the content of the blog on that domain is retarded.

No, I am not shocked that some HR person was stupid enough to do that. What I am surprised at, is that they were dumb enough to put it in writing. If you think that is a lawsuit that can't be prosecuted clearly you have never worked in a corporate environment where stupid lawsuits are the norm. IE the entire west coast. And they win.

Descrimination is against the law, it's clearly against the law to descriminate against people for what they do in their free time. Gays have proved this time and time again. Descriminate against them for something they do in their free time and the ACLU will be more than happy to sue you for everything you have.

It is not against the law to show your free time projects as proof of concept when applying for a job. I do it all the time, in my spare time I write programs for special needs children and their education. So if on my site I post a picture of a special needs child it offends somebody and the don't give me a job because of that, that is stupid and if you want to press it it's also illegal. In the realm of free speach their is no difference between a picture of a special needs kid and a picture of TS's lovely backside. They are both content on a blog pointed to as proof of concept.

I hate arguing on the internet because it's just dumb but when you say things like welcome to reality maybe you need to wake up and smell what you are shoveling. Just because it's reality doesn't make it wrong and stupid to descriminate like that.

The Berg incedent was pretty gruesome reality but it was still wrong to chop off his head. Just because something is reality doesn't mean we need to be quiet about it and say "oh well it's reality so just deal with it" go tell that to Nick Berg's parents and see what kind of reception you get. The inceddent's are not similar in severity I am just iterating a point.

We are speaking out against descrimination against a friend. I don't give a flying fuck if it's reality or not, I won't let it go unchallened, or remain silent while someone maligns a friend.

re: "Welcome to Reality" --- A Buttmunch's Perspective on Casey

William — Fri, 14 May 2004 16:54:00 GMT

Oh, please accept my apologies. I didn't realize Buttmunch was that harsh of a word and to be honest, I thought it was kind of funny and fitting at the same time without being too serious. It's similarly refreshing to see someone get so sensitive over something so trivial. But you obvsiously aren't going to acknowledge anything that I was discussing. As far as your final statement goes, I have to wonder, don't you have anything original to come back with? That quote was old was old school when I was in 5th grade, right along with Welcome to reality and Get a life. Hopefully you have a bit more creativity in design meetings...

re: "Welcome to Reality" --- A Buttmunch's Perspective on Casey

William — Fri, 14 May 2004 16:11:00 GMT

Tripe that I was spewing? It's so refreshing to see someone as open-minded as you when dealing with those that have an opposing viewpoint. First, I'm a "buttmunch" and now "I'm spewing tripe." I bet you're a lot of fun to have in design meetings.

We disagree. The fact that you get so very emotional, angry and resort to name calling over a disagreement inclines me to believe that I'm just wasting my time trying to explain to you.

Or said another way:

"When arguing with fools, don't answer their foolish arguments,or you will become as foolish as they are."

fun fun fun

TrackBack — Fri, 14 May 2004 15:59:00 GMT

fun fun fun

re: "Welcome to Reality" --- A Buttmunch's Perspective on Casey

William — Fri, 14 May 2004 15:39:00 GMT

It doesn't take a sycophant to realize you are wrong, but it's a cool title. If I get some time, I'll start a Casey's Sycophant Club. I remember being at PDC in San Fran a month ago when he was giving his speech, everyone was really impressed so I know there'd be quite a few members. Thanks for the idea

From start to finish, I was criticizing their hypocrisy and short sightedness as illustrated in the two emails that Casey references. Yes, i do see some irony in someone criticizing his judgement when there's is ostensibly worse,.

<<That's not the point. The point is that if you direct potential employers to a website that they might find offensive, then you run the risk that they will find you lacking judgement. >> Where did I ever argue anything to the contrary. I think I"ve acknowledged this, I just said it's shortsighted. The same couild be said for things they come across incidentally that you didn't direct them to. What about all that tripe you were spewing about "he should do it on a 'personal' web site. It is a personal web site. The fact that he pointed them to it doesn't make it not exist. And the fact that he says stuff on his web site that is said in every company every day and that someone is too dumb to look past it is Stupid.

<<My entire point has been that just don't be shocked or upset when a potential employer or client has shortsighted. Most of the people making hiring decisions aren't techies and wouldn't understand anything Casey says anyway>> Who's shocked or upset, I just think they're stupid for doing so.

<<My entire point has been that just don't be shocked or upset when a potential employer or client has shortsighted. Most of the people making hiring decisions aren't techies and wouldn't understand anything Casey says anyway>> Simple. Their contention is that he has bad judgement. Mine is that he doesn't. If bad judgement is a metric at their company, then they fall quite short but WRITING stuff that could easily be used against them. You also made a point earlier that there was nothing dumb about there emails from a legal perspective..remember America's Funniest Home Videos? Well, I'm saying that this is prime fodder for frivolous law suits and stupid.

<<Bottom line: Everyone has the freedom to post whatever they want on their websites. But, if you are going to direct clients to your web site, then having anything that might be viewed as offensive or questionable is really not a terribly bright thing to do if you are needing clients. If you don't need clients, or have such high demands then hey, whatever..... >> Are we in the same conversation? The Bottom line is that what they did under the sanctimonious guise of 'good judgement' and professionalism is stupid, exhibits bad judgement and isn't very professional. And all my point has been is that they are stupid for using this as a metric and even dumber for acknowledging it. This whole stupid argument has been you dancing around things I never said or implied and backing away from what you did say, which from the looks of things would make you a prime candidate at the HR offices he referenced.

re: "Welcome to Reality" --- A Buttmunch's Perspective on Casey

William — Fri, 14 May 2004 14:39:00 GMT

"Who are my sycophants btw?"

Sorry, singular. Sycophant. But it looks G. Amato is trying out for the fan club.

" Again, show me an example where he's ever had a lapse of judgement at work or caused ANY negative issue for a company that's employed him."

That's not the point. The point is that if you direct potential employers to a website that they might find offensive, then you run the risk that they will find you lacking judgement.

"based on a few flippant comments on a web site particularly in light of the quality of the content there, you're being shortsighted"

See, I don't really disagree there. My entire point has been that just don't be shocked or upset when a potential employer or client has shortsighted. Most of the people making hiring decisions aren't techies and wouldn't understand anything Casey says anyway. But they sure as hell understand a girls butt on his web site, particularly after he directed them there.

"And what about my contention that sending out emails to people explaining why you didn't hire them is 'bad judgement'?"

How is that pertinent, anyway? Let's say it was bad judgement on their part...So? How does that relate to Casey losing an opportunity based on his web site? Lots of people make bad judgement calls? Do you really want to chronicle each one here?

Bottom line: Everyone has the freedom to post whatever they want on their websites. But, if you are going to direct clients to your web site, then having anything that might be viewed as offensive or questionable is really not a terribly bright thing to do if you are needing clients. If you don't need clients, or have such high demands then hey, whatever.....

re: "Welcome to Reality" --- A Buttmunch's Perspective on Casey

William — Fri, 14 May 2004 14:22:00 GMT

Bill, I think this dude is just jealous b/c he obviously has no skills, no balls (or at least not enough to put down his name) and probably no girls. He's probably one of the losers they'll settle on instead of KC and he's pissed b/c he can't get first billing.

re: "Welcome to Reality" --- A Buttmunch's Perspective on Casey

William — Fri, 14 May 2004 14:17:00 GMT

<<It's amazing that you, and your sycophants, can't seem to grasp the basic concept that people hire people for more than just the skills mentioned in the want ad. >> I never said they didn't. I guess I still need to say it again. It's absolutely their right to hire/not hire whoever they want. It's also shortsighted. That's my point. Who are my sycophants btw? I can't tell if you are talking to me or Casey here from the context of your previous posts and this one.

<<People look for maturity, professionalism and judgement in addition to good development skills. If you're going to be interfacing with clients, then your maturity and judgement is going to be considered just as much as your development skills. >> Again, show me an example where he's ever had a lapse of judgement at work or caused ANY negative issue for a company that's employed him. You're implicitly stating that what he writes at B&B has anything to do with his behavior at work and It doesn't. Again, my point is that if you are going to judge "judgement, professionalism " blah blah blah based on a few flippant comments on a web site particularly in light of the quality of the content there, you're being shortsighted (which is my euphamism for DumbA55 and the only one I use. Where do i reference the man or any such stuff? Nowhere!

And what about my contention that sending out emails to people explaining why you didn't hire them is 'bad judgement'? One attorney I work with looked at their comments and commented that it was 'really not smart' to write someone with that information, particularly with all the ambulance chasers out there.

Actually, you didn't respond to any one of my points and you mischaracterize the ones I made. To that end, how could I get offended? There are certainly intelligent arguments one could make counter to my points, you just haven't posited any.

re: "Welcome to Reality" --- A Buttmunch's Perspective on Casey

William — Fri, 14 May 2004 13:18:00 GMT

This is just too funny...

It's amazing that you, and your sycophants, can't seem to grasp the basic concept that people hire people for more than just the skills mentioned in the want ad.

People look for maturity, professionalism and judgement in addition to good development skills. If you're going to be interfacing with clients, then your maturity and judgement is going to be considered just as much as your development skills.

I can't even believe I have to explain this. Clearly, Casey lost a potential job or gig because he didn't understand it. Now perhaps he does. Oh sure...you can rant about "the system" or "the man" or whatever euphemism you wan't to apply, but unless you don't need an employer or clients then you play by their rules.

...and their rules, for those that aren't listening, is that people will frequently look at your personal life to gauge what type of person you are. If they find something they don't like, then you might get passed over.

And that's reality. Sorry if it offends you.

re: "Welcome to Reality" --- A Buttmunch's Perspective on Casey

William — Fri, 14 May 2004 06:02:00 GMT

Dude, why are you giving this douche bag any ink? www.brains-n-brawn.com Rules!