Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

re: Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

William — Fri, 11 Feb 2005 05:25:00 GMT

Couple of things, all due respect, big guy.

The initial US offer of tsunami aid was 15 million, in part a line of credit and not a grant. It's topped out at 315 million.

Whereas the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation has been capitalized at 20 billion.

To do serious aid, you need to take the mission as seriously as a military mission. This means that .1e7 (a million dollars) is chump change. You need to add three to the exponent.

Per capita, Germany and Britain have contributed more.

I work, as you know, in a police state, and if China pulls a repeat of Tianamen sq, I quit. But my coworker's concern is with economic and physical stability and a fair shot.

Under Fulgencio Batista, Cubans had no future unless they were part of the small elite, who formed the core of the refugees in Miami and elsewhere. They didn't have the public education we take for granted.

Castro overthrew Batista and MOST Cubans were like, cool, as were most Chinese in 1949.

Today, most of my homeys admit that Mao committed crimes. But he's also been accepted as their first maximum leader and most Chinese prefer his regime to a return of crony and feudal capitalism as was sponsored by Chiang "cash my check" Shek and Batista.

Furthermore, revolutionary regimes in former Spanish colonies inherit the "common law" of these countries which is based not on British or American traditions but on that of imperial Spain. In these regimes, detention without trial isn't a Communist innovation. It's continuous with practice in the former regime.

PART of the way we view Cuba and China is that we expect them to adhere to common law traditions when in fact Cuba's legal tradition is Roman. In this tradition, justice isn't an adversary process. Instead, the equivalent of the DA figures out that you might be a bad guy, and initiates an investigation of your ass.

In a real sense, you're guilty until proven innocent and your lawyer is expected to cooperate with the DA in establishing and agreeing on your objective innocence or guilt.

Now, I know this sounds like a necktie party and a kangaroo court, but in fact people get their day in court and the Roman system brought down a military government in Greece in the 1970s...when a DA realized that the Generals were violating the law.

And in American law, poor people are given adversarial defense attorneys only in name, guys who drink their lunch and tend to pass out during final deliberations.

For almost 100 years, despite our Constitution, American law looked t'other way when black folks were strung up under Lynch law. Today, school systems in American cities are in material violation of Brown v the Board of Education because their funding is based on property taxes.

But, America IS different. In the recent decision Hamdi v Rumsfeld, a decision which relieves some of the ignominy of Bush v Gore, the court and part of its conservative half could simply find NO BASIS in our written Constitution for Communist-style detention without trial.

Which is a good thing. Of course, it took 'em a while because the ink is sorta faded, or something.

The problem with socialist regimes is that when they write constitutions, they subordinate civil liberties to the Revolution, for the most part.

Cuba did this, but Chile did not after Allende was elected fair and square only to be overthrown BY THE US. The Nicaraguan Sandinistas left office quietly in 1990 after an election.

What this all means is that Castro's regime has some nasty features. But its overthrow will be a Haitian style disaster for women, the poor and children, who will lose overnight what you need BEFORE civil liberties: housing, education and chow.

Keep in mind, also, that PRESIDENT Bush has indicated that since "we're at war", he needs powers to detain equivalent to those of Castro in order to fight the bad guys. Our Supreme Court has told the President that he does not have this power and cannot get it. But this is only because John Marshall, in the early 19th century, established through compromise the very principle that the Supreme Court not only hears final appeals, but also has the right to cancel laws.

Before 1802, Executive tyranny was a real possibility under the old Federalist party, who used fear of the French Jacobins as a form of "terrorism" to frighten propertied classes into support for the Alien and Sedition acts. Fortunately, the British then started to act like swine, impressing cabin boys for Sodomic purposes on the high seas, and the American people refused to be frightened by the French.

Instead, as you know, we invaded Canada and the boys had a grand old time. So grand, in fact, that under Old Hickory, they defeated the British AFTER a peace treaty was signed in 1812 so that years later we could listen to The Battle of New Orleans:

They ran through the bushels and they ran through the brambles

Technically, we were on the Frogs' side but at that time the world was so disconnected that our fight had nothing to do with Napoleon's.

My point being is that don't listen to refugees who hate Castro because before him, their Daddy had a seegar plantation. Elian Gonzalez wanted to see his Daddy, a loyal follower of El Jefe.

re: Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

William — Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:21:00 GMT

Peter, there was a lot of difference between the two - cuba used to be a rich tourist haven. There were rich private citizens there. Yes, it was still f**cked up in many regards, but there's no comparison. People were allowed to leave the country back then after all - they aren't now.

re: Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

William — Wed, 02 Feb 2005 14:38:00 GMT

Fidel is only holding on, out of spite. If the sanctions against cuba were dropped tomorrow, he would keel over within a couple of weeks. My ex lived in cuba under Fidel and Bautista, and there wasn't much difference between the 2. Corruption and cronyism one way, or corruption and cronyism the other way. They both had dissidents thrown in jail, but at least Bautista was *OUR* corrupt cronyist, rather than that other corrupt cronyist.

re: Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

William — Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:34:00 GMT

Bill/Frans-

Not a problem... I have lot's of friends who are left of center. Matter of fact, some of my closest friends are. Just stirrin' things up a little; no offense and not personal that's for sure ;-)

>>ah, VB.NET... I knew it... :P <<
{
Well, actually C# too... I just need to get a little
extra rest on those days. :P;
}

re: Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

William — Wed, 02 Feb 2005 10:36:00 GMT

"Oh, and Frans, cool down brother. Might want to save some of that energy for typing curly braces instead :-> "
ah, VB.NET... I knew it... :P

Sahil: I read that in my paper, I don't have on-line proof, sorry.

re: Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

William — Wed, 02 Feb 2005 10:35:00 GMT

"I came across something the other day on http://dutchreport.blogspot.com/2005/01/moroccan-youth-at-school.html - I know the stuff we hear is often skewed quite a bit. Is the problem with the Moroccans really as bad as some are making it out to be? That teacher shouldn't have to deal with crap like this - but then again, many of our schools have gun detectors in them."
Media makes it a problem. We have close to a million moroccans here and only a very tiny group tries to ruin things. When I was a kid we didn't have any people who originated from other countries in our neighborhood but also had troubling kids and violence against teachers.

The link you've posted hypes things up and the blog geenstijl.nl is only posting sensational news. I mean: if one jerk wants respect, why would that mean all moroccans want respect ? It doesn't.

re: Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

William — Wed, 02 Feb 2005 08:39:00 GMT

Bill:

I will say this much, as a digression. As much as I hate Fidel, I wish we'd lift that damned embargo. I want my cuban cigars. :) And it's not like they aren't sold everywhere else but here...

But if he dies tomorrow, I won't lose any sleep. Except maybe in anticipation of an Hoyo de Monterrey Double Corona. :)

re: Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

William — Tue, 01 Feb 2005 22:39:00 GMT

I only use the word Lefty in an affecionate sense - Frans and I have spoken before and he's said he's on the left hand side of things.

There's no such thing as a Conservative Democrat any more. Actually, I don't think there are any conservative Republicans these days either. But I don't think Frans fits the mold - the best way to describe him is "The cool lefty" I mean socially I don't think I disagree Frans on anything. Maybe on terrorism and tree hugging, I mean environmentalism we have some differences, but from what I've seen, we agree on more than we disagree on. Plus he's got one h3ll of a view at his place.

See, the long and short of it on the political spectrum is that too many on both sides start the name calling and just flip b/c they find out someone disagrees with them. That's pathetic. If you watch Frans - he's totally cool about disagreements (I think that's called being an adult - something too many folks have lost touch of these days) - unless you start dogging him out. Then he chews them a new one and it's funny. Like I said, if all the Left was like him and Edward Nilges, well, it'd be cool - I might even join them. But I'm not big on the smelly hippy thing (and please - no hippy replies here like every other time I rag on them).

Don't get me started on Michael Moore - I'll end up babbling and ranting and people will think I'm nuttier than they already do.

Your right though, JFK was no John Edwards - that's for sure.

re: Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

William — Tue, 01 Feb 2005 22:27:00 GMT

Bill -

That punk needs a serious a**-beating. Watch how fast he'd shut his trap with my foot up his f*n' a**. Oh, right, I can't, I'm a pacifist! www.gutlesspacifist.com

If all the lefties were like Frans as you describe him, then I would say he could be classified more as a conservative Democrat, or moderate Republican, take your pick. Such was the case until freaks like Michael Moore hijacked the Democrat party. He's certainly not minding all the money he's pocketing off his "documentaries"; he's a piece-o-sh*t of the highest order. Oh, and a hypocrite to boot! But aren't they all.

Frans, what would you like to be? A conservative Democrat or moderate Republican? Hard choice since conservative is a dirty word, but so is Republican… ;-) I bet JFK is rolling in his grave at what his party has become.

re: Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

William — Tue, 01 Feb 2005 21:38:00 GMT

Right-Wing FanBoy:

I don't know - depends where you look. You get around the Le Monde crowd and forget about it - I'd rather tell 30 Linux advocates a la COLA variety that Linux Blows and Windows Rocks then mix it up with a LeMondy about America. And if all the Lefty's were like Frans - well, things would be cool. You let him see the types that hang out at American peace marches, or smell some of them, he'd probably vote for Bush and buy a SUV in the same day ;-). I think the lefty's over in Europe are all educated folks whereas only a portion of them here are. They got the better deal on that one.

I know, we catch crap no matter what. Fortunately we're a pretty thick skinned group of people though.

re: Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

William — Tue, 01 Feb 2005 21:30:00 GMT

I don't know if it makes a difference really - we spend enough money undoinn all the crap Saudi Arabia spews out to the world to more than offset anything they gave.

I do know that at first they weren't going to give squat and it wasn't until people started ragging on them about not helping their brothers that they chipped in - I thought it was 16 million that they gave - not sure what their population is there. I konw the US was well over a billion wasn't it? And that's no including all of the resources we sent over there

You can compute numbers to paint any picture you want - we're not a cheap country and the per capita thing is pretty much acknowledgement that we gave the most - Europeans hate giving us credit for anything good ;-)

BTW, Sahil - click on that link I posted above and watch the video. I'll donate $500.00 to anyone's charity of choice if they can show me a video of that little punk getting his a33 kicked. And I don't speak Dutch so I can't understand what old boy is saying, but I bet there's some profanity in there that'd be interesting to hear.

re: Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

William — Tue, 01 Feb 2005 21:23:00 GMT

Sorry to spoil the party, but Saudi Arabia gave per inhabitant more money than the US did
<--- Can you back that up with a credible link on the internet?

re: Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

William — Tue, 01 Feb 2005 19:01:00 GMT

Bill -

Ya, defending the U.S. is sometimes like defending Microsoft from the anything-but-Microsoft zealots, or VB from the anti-VB zealots ;-). It's tough being the biggest sometimes...

Oh, and Frans, cool down brother. Might want to save some of that energy for typing curly braces instead :->

re: Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

William — Tue, 01 Feb 2005 18:30:00 GMT

Regarding your comments above - you had me laughing my a33 off - particularly about the English ;-) Agree on every count.

On a side note...

I came across something the other day on http://dutchreport.blogspot.com/2005/01/moroccan-youth-at-school.html - I know the stuff we hear is often skewed quite a bit. Is the problem with the Moroccans really as bad as some are making it out to be? That teacher shouldn't have to deal with crap like this - but then again, many of our schools have gun detectors in them.

re: Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

William — Tue, 01 Feb 2005 18:23:00 GMT

Frans - to be fair though - it's simple math, the US is pushing 300 million people - many of which are retired, not working, under 18 etc. So a better denominator is working adults. When you look in aboslute terms - there's no doubt that we donated a lot. Also, outside of money - our military equipment and personnel aren't being included but they certainly helped out a lot.

Yes, there are a lot of American interest in keeping Castro in power. Helms-Burton - passed by two very conservative senators - neither of which are from Florida, made things even more difficult with the embargo. Look where they both are from - agriculturally oriented states. Do you think they want competition from Cuba. Nope.

American foreign policy is a mess for sure. On the other hand, and I don't think I'm being unfair about this - if you look at the European response to many issues - it's "Let's keep talking, and talk some more" When France for instance, fully implements Kyoto - I'll eat my words on this - but it won't be for at least 10 more years if at all. AFAIK, take an issue like Kyoto which Americans got flogged about by the Europeans - most of which to date still haven't come close to fully implementing it. No - my point isn't "See you guys are bad too" or anything like that - it's just that every country out there has got problems. The US gets criticized over everything. Everything. We're too isolationist, were too global - you name it, we catch crap for it. You have to admit that if Americans wanted to seriously point out some issues with Europe, we'd have a decent bit of marterial to work with.

I don't blindly defend American foriegn or domestic policy - but I do think we catch a good bit of crap that we don't deserve- like being called cheap. Fat yes. Watch too much tv yes. But I don't know about cheap ;-)

re: Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

William — Tue, 01 Feb 2005 18:17:00 GMT

"My point is that Castro is a pig - whether he's a Socialist or not. There's so much crap that doesn't get reported in the US or the 'objective' internation media b/c they don't tend to trash Socialists. "
Oh I think that's fully true. If you just think of how many assholes there are in power across the globe, you really start to wonder how they get away with it.

"The US isn't a monolithich beast, there's no such thing as "One" American opinion. Nor are there American tactics. Foreign and Domestic policy are a weee bit different under Johnson -> Nixon -> Carter -> Reagan etc wouldn't you agree?"
Agreed. :) It's way different now (IMHO) as it was under clinton 1. (and before right-wing fanboys chime in: the world really didn't change that much during these years)

""Why do people like Castro get a free ride and get glorified at every turn""
I ask myself the same thing from time to time, also about other dictators. The only reason must be that some bigger power wants them to sit there.

"One thing I have noticed is that all you bastards speak better English than we do - it's a real ball buster when some Dutchy speaks my own language better than I do but oh well."
I know at least ONE exception, we both know him ;P

"I wish all the liberals here were like you - employed, successful, articulate. If you tried rolling into a peace rally over here, you'd stick out like a sore thumb. "Hey, whos' that dude with a job, and clean clothes -no tattos on his face or earrings in his nose - dammit he must be an impostor - get him" "
hahaha :D.

The funny thing is: over here, 'liberal' is associated with the right-wing republican-style "business first" party. So being a liberal here is not left-wing at all :). (but still they are left wing compared to far most of the us congressmembers I think)

"But that's the diffference between reasonable people and a lot of the folks on the far left or right. Some right wingers won't acknowledge anything bad about the US - many left wingers refuse to admit that Evil occurs outside of the US unless it's done by the US. But screwed up is screwed up"
I think that's a great piece of text to end the debate with! :). I fully agree with what you said there.

re: Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

William — Tue, 01 Feb 2005 18:07:00 GMT

"When the Tsunamis struck Asia, particularly Muslim dominated Indonesia, all these countries were quiet -

Saudi Arabia
Iran
Morocco
<<insert all other muslim countries>>
China.

The one country that did the most *even* in that situation - Was the United States Of America. "
Sorry to spoil the party, but Saudi Arabia gave per inhabitant more money than the US did. (we in the netherlands did too btw, over 146 million euro, by just 16 million people).

"but with all the cuban immigrants showing up in Florida, it is hard to imagine that america wants Cuba to be backward under Castro. A developed Cuba means three outright advantages for America

1. One more touristy place where it doesn't snow.
2. Another market to exploit (as it develops atleast).
3. Lesser illegal immigration and cheaper labor (as it develops). "
You are right, the problem is that these aren't important enough IMHO (but I can be wrong here of course) to put everything in solving the cuba problem. I mean, the USofA tries for 30 years to get an old man out of office... if they really wanted to, he was gone tomorrow.

re: Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

William — Tue, 01 Feb 2005 17:22:00 GMT

Sahil - I loved the Pakistan comments ;-)

re: Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

William — Tue, 01 Feb 2005 17:22:00 GMT

Frans - as far as NPR goes - I don't know people keep throwing that at you. NPR is a radio program that's the moral equivalent of slamming down a bottle of Xanax and chasing it with a bottle of whiskey. It'll knock you right out from the boredom. Mainly listened to by Rich White People and hippies. You would never cut it on NPR b/c you're way too interesting. If you're the least bit interesting - they'll boot you right off.

I'm not going to hop in the 'my country is better than yours' thing b/c, well, you weren't saying that to me, and well, every country has it's problems. I wish soft drugs were legalized too and people left the gays be - we're too obsessed with that nonsense. Not sure how I feel about euthenasia - not too opinionated either way there. One thing I have noticed is that all you bastards speak better English than we do - it's a real ball buster when some Dutchy speaks my own language better than I do but oh well.

I will agree that saying "You liberals" is a broad brush - that covers a lot of area. So does Americans - or Merkins as our leader refers to us. I wish all the liberals here were like you - employed, successful, articulate. If you tried rolling into a peace rally over here, you'd stick out like a sore thumb. "Hey, whos' that dude with a job, and clean clothes -no tattos on his face or earrings in his nose - dammit he must be an impostor - get him"

In Cuba - people don't have 1/10000th of the freedoms either of our contries do - it's a shame. Same for a lot of the other countries you mentioned. On of my other favorite Whipping Boys is Mugabe. I love watching UN Delegates cheer him and Castro - regardless of what you think of the US - something is really wrong with that picture.

But that's the diffference between reasonable people and a lot of the folks on the far left or right. Some right wingers won't acknowledge anything bad about the US - many left wingers refuse to admit that Evil occurs outside of the US unless it's done by the US. But screwed up is screwed up ---

re: Since I'm pissing off everyone anyway

William — Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:33:00 GMT

Frans - being that you are one of the cool leftists ;-) I agree, there's a ton of crap on the planet. My point is that Castro is a pig - whether he's a Socialist or not. There's so much crap that doesn't get reported in the US or the 'objective' internation media b/c they don't tend to trash Socialists.

The US isn't a monolithich beast, there's no such thing as "One" American opinion. Nor are there American tactics. Foreign and Domestic policy are a weee bit different under Johnson -> Nixon -> Carter -> Reagan etc wouldn't you agree?

I guess the point I was making more than anything else wasn't "Look how great the US is" it was more like "Why do people like Castro get a free ride and get glorified at every turn" Certainly you would agree that Castro has much better press coverage than say Bush does. And if BUsh enacted 1/10000th of the policies Castro has ... Michael Moore is a mutlimillionaire after all - show me one dissident in Cuba that could make a mocking film about Castro and live to tell about it.

I agree with you about the Sanctions - it's absurd. Remember who put them in place though ;-) It wasn't a Republican - although certainly Republicans have kept them in place. Castro doesn't want them removed either - they help legitimize his oppressed status and politicians love unarmed, hungry peasants.

I do have to admit though - every now and then (like every time I read Le Monde) it makes me want to by a big SUV and do donuts in the rain forest while eating an endangered species in a Styrofoam container ;-)