"I'm lazy and stupid so it's Microsoft's fault"

Published Fri, Jan 28 2005 1:07 | William

I was out indirectly ego surfing tonight working on a spider that i've been playing with and I saw the results.  Amongst them were some D1ckw0d bitching about Microsoft.  But I really feel like venting about this.... Here's his final response: (If you are interested in seeing PROOF THAT UNEMPLOYMENT IS WAYYYYYYYYY TOOOOOOOO LOW  in the U.S...)


The DataSet contains 1 or more DataTables.
A DataTable contains 1 or more DataRows.
A DataRow contains 1 or more DataColumns.
A DataView is a subset and/or sorted view of the DataSet.
I'm still unsure what the purpose of the DataRowViews is, but I know
DataRowView.FindRows returns it.

Like I mentioned earlier, I have created my own components to handle things
the way they should be.

I'm mainly venting because I would have expected a better design from MS,
but I guess if you(most people in this NG, I assume) haven't seen anything
other than MS, you wouldn't have anything to compare it to.
So of course you would think that this design is great.

Give Borland a try when you get a chance, you will see a hell of a design.
You can tell that Borland tools are Developed By Developers for Developers.

MS is designed for cash only!!

-----------------------------------------------------

Now, mind you that the original complaint this guy had was that ADO.NET SUCKED because <get ready>  Tard Boy couldn't get a DATAGRID .  For those of you unfamiliar with ADO.NET - A Datagrid is a member of the System.Widows.Forms.Control nampespace, a 'sure' sign that ADO.NET sucks. The thing about it is this.  The thread went back and forth about 5 times with different people pointing out that HorseShoes might be cool and all, but they don't work well with cars.  Go replace the Pirelli's with horse shoes and even a 911 isn't going to handle very well.  But Chumpchange had to keep it up.  From start to finish this was one of the most obnoxious posts I've read.  Ignoring the obvious points, like collections are composed of 0 or more objects -- there's enough real stuff to point out to dwell on minituae.

Ummm, yep, that's me, I ain't a never heard of nuthin but Microsoft.  But I heard that fellar that wrote the C Sharp spec, didn't he a come from one of them fancy compaines like Borland - or is that just propaganda that only us stupid Microsoft lemmings believe?

I mean, if you can pimp your game, then go ahead and talk smack.  But don't go posting in a newsgroup - and thereby prove that you haven't even bothered to look into what the f~ck you're talking about, and then go blast everyone that points out you don't know what the f~ck you're talking about.

HOW IN THE HELL IS THIS  A ADO.NET ISSUE?  You're bitching about the god damned Winforms grid - and oh geez, it doesn't work exactly like you expected it to.  Yes, that's totally a problem with ADO.NET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know, I use ADO.NET every f~cking day and I hardly ever mess with UI stuff.  How can that be?  The best part though is having some lame dumb a33 talk to me and a bunch of other people like he's the only one that used Borland.  Hey, go check the Borland newsgroups and see how many times I posted there bitching about the fact that things worked EXACTLY how they are documented.  Here's one of my favorite lines:

 have and I've used the best. I also used and created components from
OLEDB.
ADO.NET has alot to be desired and they are also missing functionality that
OLEDB had.
Such as the different resultset types (Keyset, dynamic, forwardonly,
etc...).

Boy, I must have really missed the boat - because even when I used Borland - well, I at least took the time to understand WTF I was doing. 

To Angel and Sushil - you guys really need to work on the dynamic and forwardonly Disconnected data objects ;-)........No, seriously, he read the manual and knows what he's talking about.  Sign me up as someone demanding a forwardonly datatable. 

---- Don't mean to bitch (well, yes I do) but this is really irritating.  I mean, does it take someone Microsoft Worshipping Kool Aid drinking idiot to realize that Winforms isn't ADO.NET?  And if you're 3l33t a33 is so 3l33t - then why did management decide to leave the “best products in the world” (along with the architect that created them?)

Oh well, I guess I'll keep drinking my kool aid and waiting for that forwardonly datatable.

Comments

# William said on January 28, 2005 4:47 AM:

The guy needs to understand, the top honcho of VS.NET Marie Huwe - actually came from Borland. LOL

# William said on January 28, 2005 10:13 AM:

I use Borland C# builder for everything I do in C# ( which isn't much ) because it's free for corporate developers. Other than that VS has all the same things and on dual monitors VS definitely out performs Borland. Borland has a lot of painting and sizing issues on dual monitors that VS doesn't. The guy is clueless I'd use VS if it didn't cost so much. It's a nicer IDE but I'm cheap so I use Borland or an open source IDE for some things. Most other stuff I have set up as command line compile through UltraEdit. That's right I'm a cheap @ss. How is windows forms object part of ADO? The guy is nuts.

# William said on January 28, 2005 10:31 AM:

And correct me if I'm wrong, but TurboC and Turbo C++ used to be Borland products and Microsoft Visual C++ 4.2 completely whooped Borland C 3.0's ass. Not to mention,

Have you heard of the Owl Api? I damn well worked with it !! And if you think MFC sucks, wait till you see Owl. Working with it felt like the morning after spicy pad thai.

# William said on January 28, 2005 11:32 AM:

Thanks guys. The thing I keep coming to is that you can't really bitch about technological shortcomings until you are familiar with it enough to know that the shortcoming isn't on your end.

ADO.NET is about the coolest stuff you can work with IMHO - I just hate to see people trash it b/c of idiotic reasons like this.

# William said on January 28, 2005 1:42 PM:

Anders Hejlsberg, chief designer of C# came from Borland as well. Hell he helped design Delphi and is my belief why Delphi and C# are almost identical.

Borland is by far not perfect though. I have Delphi 7 and a couple of the default VCLs have bugs in them that have not been fixed in the couple of years it has been released. There's obvious design issues with some of this and though I miss things like ActionLists and ActionManagers they weren't really "complete" like the .NET framework is.

If this person thinks Borland is so much better, maybe they should be using Delphi.NET 2005. Delphi 8 was restricted to the 1.0 framework and was released WELL AFTER 1.1 was. It was clunky and almost completely useless. I couldn't find how to create a standalone Delphi exe to save my life, it always required that god-awful 1.0. I'd much rather have VS.NET 2005 (complete with new icons, refactoring, unit testing at the lowest level, you know stuff developer's today NEED) than any Borland product offering the same thing. VS.NET 2005 won't be perfect since MS is wanting everyone to pay out the ass for Team System but hopefully there'll be enough open source tools to fill that gap rather quickly.

This person obviously isn't looking for help though, just a place to vent about how they can't screw up any more (though luckily never has). I'd rather have a framework with good restrictions than an "allow all" approach which is why viruses and spyware are so easy to produce. When you don't restrict an API, exploiting it becomes incredibly easy even by a novice programmer. Microsoft might not have made the best choices in every single area but as a whole it's sufficient. Could there be more? Sure. At least we can subclass this crap and derive our own. The fact we have to derive so much to get similar functionality of older products can be a little uneasy (toolbar/menu for instance completely SUCK) but 2.0 will change some of that hopefully.

# William said on January 28, 2005 6:43 PM:

Jeremy - I totally understand and agree. I wanted to point out to boy genius that there was quite a stir about Microsoft's "theft" of all the intellectual leaders of Borland. The fact that it was called theft tells you quite a bit about the perspectives of those that called it that. Nonetheless, the whole things seems hysterical. All paths return Microsoft is Bad [Which, I'd point out that if it weren't for Microsoft - I wonder how many vendors, including Borland - wouldn't have earned 1/2 the money they have].

Late at night I'm a much grumpier being than during the day. This crap barely phases me in the day, but later on , especially stuff that's ignorance is rivalled only by it's arrogance - I'm just glad old boy doesn't work with me.

# William said on February 16, 2005 12:33 PM:

This is a perfect example of the kind of people that we live with. I call them the triple A generation (AAA) or anti-Microsoft, anti-technology and anti-advancement prejudice radicals. I get nauseous when I see people like this, which is everyday since I have like 3 AAA at work.
The other day I was reading Visual Basic.Net Class Design by Wrox and this AAA radical approach me and ask, “What are you reading?” knowing him I simply showed him the book cover, then he replied with the most predictable AAA radical comment, “Oh!, slow, buggy and useless development.”. I asked him, “What makes Java better than .Net” he replied, “Speed, faster development and stability.” Then I asked, “Why?” he couldn’t give me one example. I told him “I know Java, CGI and the tools he uses. But I also care to know asp, asp.net, vb.net, C# and a lot about the .net framework, and at least I know what one language does better than the other.
AAA radicals always complain about Microsoft bugs, but any average programmer knows that it is impossible to not have bugs or security issues on any major or largely used software. The reason why no one knows about open source system bugs is because there is no one to blame. Every company has bugs; any software that connects or feeds from or into another system can be hacked. The only difference is that Microsoft admits it and others don’t. What defines a good developer? The ability to use existing technology the best way possible. So if Java is the best choice then use the best choice. If asp.net is, then use asp.net. Don’t use a text file as a data source just because Microsoft made SQL Server. Would you trust a carpenter that fall in love with his hammer and want to use it on every job refusing the possibility that other tools might be more appropriate in certain circumstances? If you answer is yes then you are an AAA radical.

# William said on February 16, 2005 12:45 PM:

Sam - that's an excellent analysis. I call them "People I hope I never work with " but you are dead on here....

# Layton Smith-Perrin said on December 22, 2006 7:27 AM:

Good grief. This is one arrogant post. First of all Microsoft acquired A LOT of people (stole them) from Borland (see http://news.com.com/2100-1023-279561.html)

ADO.NET and C# were well designed and thought out, although it's about time. Delphi is still better than C#. I was doing things with the VCL that ADO.NET is just starting to do now 7 years ago. The horse shoes on cars statement is just plain ignorant.

One has to understand that some Microsoft developers are excellent, but the general rule has been that they have been terrible in the past. Too many VB courses in college.

In terms of .NET performance, please read the excellent article by Mark Russinovich (formely SysInternals, now Microsoft) about his serious concerns about .NET performance and memory bloat. (That is if Microsoft hasn't already pulled it from the internet).

I use Borland, Java, and .NET. Knowledge is power.

And about Microsoft, they steal EVERYTHING. They have NO business ethics. Right now they are getting software patents on things they didn't even invent in order to screw the open source community.

We didn't need .NET, but Microsoft can't stand one bit of competition. The platform looks good, though, so I will use it where and as appropriate.

*END*

# Layton Smith-Perrin said on December 22, 2006 7:39 AM:

I have to add - having finished reading some of your posts more clearly, that those of you expounding the virtues of Microsoft show tremendous immaturity both in your demeanour as well as your systems experience.

I will say again, I know and use Microsoft development tools, but the comments about Delphi7 and Turbo C are ridiculous.

Microsoft could not even write a decent C compiler never mind a decent C++ compiler. Their binary object model is terrible and the C++ compiler up to version 7 crashed all the time and could not even parse nested templates without crashing!

I am not going to flame anyone, that is immature and rude, but in my 30 years of software development experience, Microsofts development tool chain and OS offerings have been *** to total ***.

They are now good to excellent at times - finally - after stealing technology and screwing up the industry for so long.

# William said on January 24, 2007 11:28 PM:

Arrogant, and tremendously immature?  I'm moving up in the world.   How do you steal an employee btw?  Are employees property?  Otherwise I don't think they can be stolen, can they?

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