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I would argue that if you are going to use managed C++ you might as well use C#. I can only base this on hearsay though as I do not use managed C++. Now if you want to switch to C++ raw then I'm behind you 100%. I think for me personally though if I were given the choice between managed C++ and C# I would pick C# simply because I need to learn it better. I know C++ well and managed C++ is just gross(This I do know first hand) and if you are using all managed interfaces (this is the part I don't know for sure because my C# knowlege is weak) you have virtually identical functionality to C#??? You know what I would kill for? I mean absolutely go out and destroy for? An IDE like C# has in Visual Studio but for Java. Because I do so much web mapping stuff I use a lot of Java. I would kill to be able to debug, and have intellisense for Java the way VS has for it's suite of languages. I mean that. I would kiss Bill Gates.....er no I wouldn't......I would kiss Melinda Gates....that sounds much better, if they would make Java supported in VS as fully as they support all the others. Also I would like to personally slap that dude to f#ck and back who wrote that page the link targets. I am in a bunch of study groups etc with MS developers every week and most of them are using C++ at least the ones working on core stuff like Sql Server and Source Safe. That's why VC++ 2005 is so awesome they dogfooded their own developers with it. The OS is built with it. In the past internal dogfood libraries like ATL and WTL proved to be way better than the public only libraries like MFC (Good F#ck what an abortion that is). I am hoping just like with ATL and WTL that because of the internal dogfooding, and their new penchant for standard compliance, VC++ 2005 will blow every other compiler off the map. The IDE does already even in VC++6 but the compiler needs to catch up. If the docs I'm reading for VC++2005 are accurate then it will put most other C++ compilers out of business.
I wrote C++ for 2 years and had a total love/hate relationship with it. This whole stupid argument is embarassing. I can't understand why people are such dorks. You can write shit in any language and the reason there's a lot less shit in C++ is that it's a lot harder for complete dummies to claim they're C++ programmers. You're right though - and on GP I need to polish up on .cpp. BTW, your Java quote over on Carl's blog was the BESt.
I honestly think the IDE for C# is what will kill Java....well maybe not kill but severly degrade it's developer base. The hardcore Java people will stay but the middle of the road and the new folks will go to C# because of how much more productive the IDE makes them. The guys on all these language wars have it wrong, it's not the language that makes people more productive it's the IDE. Make .Net developers code in a text editor/emacs like most of the Java people are forced to do and I would bet productivity scores would even out once the .Net people got used to not using an IDE. I use UltraEdit for Java because I get syntax highlighting and you can compile out of it like you can with any text editor capable of running DOS commands. It has a window for capture of compiler and linker messages too. However I would still kill for a VS type IDE for it and that is where the true RAD productivity stems from. You can learn to write super fast in any laguage even Lisp but that VS IDE for developers is like nitrous for cars. Honest injun I prefer C++ to all of them in any IDE or just a command line compiler. That is entirely personal preference though. I feel most comfortable in that language and it allows me to express my solutions exactly the way I think. I can simply write out my solution the way my idea flows. When I work in other languages ( C included ) I feel constrained because I have to go look up this or that and my ideas don't flow as well from head to code. But that is how my brain works, the language suits me well. I work with a guy that is the "great kind" of VB developer. Has a BS in CS and just prefers to us VB. Why? Same reason I use C++ he thinks solutions best in that language.(Well that and his dept. doesn't mandate languages on projects and he doesn't have to cross platforms like we do but still he can code well in C++ too I have seen him do it.) It takes all kinds and if you can code it in your favorite language quickly and efficiantly then why not do so? I think the language wars do nothing but waste time. I do however reserve the right to hate bad VB programmers more than other bad programmers. Why? Like I tell my kids: "Because. That's why."
Bill, what about writting IL code directly? ;-)
Just think of all the endless hours wasted in these debates. It's amazing. It never changes anyone's opinion.
i was going to write my next post about this shit...i mean, talk a about a bunch of idiocy over nothing. of course i was going to approach this shit from quite a different viewpoint though... this is just one more area why "programmers are fucking dorks"
I agree with Andy, the number 1 reason why I love programming in VS is the IDE, it's just amazing...but it's also a crutch that bites you in the ass when you go back and start to work on an ASP.old page with VBScript and can't remember what the HELL parameters that you are passing to a procedure!!!.... sorry, I'm having a difficult day today since my ASP page is being a buttslam.
Go Phil!
NO doubt about it, the ide rocks. I remember my first CS class using C and a dos text editor - debugging was great fun. I also remember how much fun it was writing my first two way linked list with it. Ahh the good old days. I could have drank 30 times as much beer if I only had intellisense.
I feel your guys's pain... the stupidity of arguing this (ok, i fall into that category when i'm in a shitty mood, bored or simply just want to stir some shit up) is endless. it nearly mimick the old PHP vs ASP age..
PHP vs ASP? Fortunately I missed that, but this one is probably worse.
Yes, The IDE of VC++ is amazing .I love it.