Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Posted Sun, Jul 5 2009 12:43 by Nate Oliver

Okay, let's take Excel 2008 off the table, it ships VBA-less; this is a deal-breaker for me. Note, this is simply my thoughts based on my brief experience, i.e., if you enjoy using Excel on your Mac, more power to you. And this is my take on an out-of-the-box interface, itself, not attempting to set up Jet Connections, etc...

I conducted a poll at MrExcel.com, to see if people with PC vs. Mac Excel experience preferred one to the other. The turn-out was underwhelming, but the majority does appear to favor the PC, and can be found, here:

http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=353557

I had never worked with Excel on a Mac, until recently. I do pro bono consulting for the Women's Professional Billiards Association (WPBA), and my contact, on their Board of Directors, uses a Mac. Right, so I was off to North Carolina to provide training and some non-trivial project-work, on a Mac.

Nice enough looking machine; however, there were a couple of things that were driving me batty while trying to simply work with Excel on a Mac.

No right-click. I knew before I even jumped on this thing that it's not available, but that didn't stop me, it's engrained in my brain. Perhaps I didn't realize just how much I right-click? Quick sort? Quickly set some Column Widths? Paste Special? Forget about it, you're going to the menu. I can't recall why I was attempting to right-click so much, but I must have done it 10 times in an hour. This being the working definition of insanity - attempting the same thing over and over again while expecting different results.

There's probably a simple fix for this, a key combination perhaps, but we didn't know it: the F-keys don't work? I like my F-keys too, apparently. I know I tried to use F2 and F9 while auditing some Worksheet Functions, and nothing. The one F-key combination that did work was Alt-F11, more on this in a moment.

I found myself missing normal keyboard keys. There is no Delete key, there is, but it functions like a Backspace. The Mac's keyboard is missing other keys, too, like End? Someone help me out here (I only did this for 2 hours). It's missing a key that I use a lot for scrolling, must be End...

And for my favorite drain-bamager... Like I said, Alt-F11 works, nice. So I get back into the Project, add a Module, I am ready to rip. When I write a lot of code that interacts with complex Worksheet data I tend to jump back and forth between the front and back end of Excel quite a bit; here's where the fun really begins.

So I flip back to the Worksheet, look my data, flip back to the Project. The Project's still open, but the Module's gone. Where did that thing go? At this point, I feel like I'm watching Eddie Murphy's 'Delirious', where Eddie's old man calls the family dog, Cocoa, and that dog is outta there. Where the [bleep] is that dog going?! "The dog is stupid, Eddie!"

I'm messing around in the Project Explorer, I can't get this thing to maximize? Fine, I kill the VBE, and step into the procedure from the front-end. Again, more working definition of insanity, I repeat said view flip; it's gone again. My contact says, "I bet I know where it is." She cursors over to the left side of the screen, in the VBE, and this magical, vertical task bar appears from out of nowhere. If you cursor down to the very lower-left of the screen, at this point, there's your Module. I would have never found that thing!

Performance was fine, other than an issue with Variant Arrays, but the interface almost drove me insane - or, maybe it did. Not quite like a fish being out of water, but it was just different enough where every few minutes or so I found myself wondering "Wait a second, here. What?"

Granted, I'm very new to that interface, so I was probably guilty of some Mac-Newb gaffers.

Comments

# Yup, you were

Wednesday, July 08, 2009 12:03 AM by Kelly Miller

Right click works just the same as on a PC -- take your right mouse button and click on a cell. All Macs can use a two button mouse, and recent Macs come with one (or a no-button mouse which detects right side or left side pushes, if you prefer). Mac laptops have a very easy way to right click -- press two fingers on the trackpad -- why don't PC's do this?

Some of the keyboard shortcuts are different, particularly those that use the F-keys. These can all be configured and changed to your liking.

Now, I've used Excel on a Mac since version 1.0 way back in 1985 or 1986 (you did know that Excel was originally a Mac-only program, didn't you?), and have only extensively used it on a PC for the past year. There are things about Excel on Windows that also bug me (like the inability to have more than one free-floating window). But really, the differences are minor, and you can adjust pretty easily.

# re: Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Wednesday, July 08, 2009 7:50 AM by Michael

Nate -

Yup commented on the mouse.  There's a preference to set it up just like your PC mouse.  (I only started with v1.5 ;-))

Things are in different places, but for the whole XL2004 is like XL2003 on the spreadsheet side.  Chip Pearson's indispensable Cell View even works with it.

VBA is different.  XL2008 doesn't have it.  XL2004 is only v5.  Functions added in v6 aren't there.  Smart Indenter doesn't work at all, and the VBE doesn't scroll.

...mrt

# re: Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:30 AM by Nate Oliver

Hi Kelly, I actually did know that Excel was originally developed for a Mac platform. It was 1985, and predates my Excel-usage, by a wide margin.

I own a book, by Bill Jelen (MrExcel), called "The Spreadsheet at 25", which provides a high-level history of Spreadsheets, ranging from Visicalc, to Lotus 1-2-3, to Excel. Apparently, the original list-price was $495.

What I didn't realize is that XL 2004 VBA is VB5-based. That might explain the issue I was having. It's hard to say, because I wrote the code on a PC, shipped it, hoped and prayed, and was vaguely told it doesn't work - so I rewrote it. Did I try to use Split(), or Join(), etc...?

Okay, so ignorance isn't always bliss. And keep in mind, this wasn't my machine I was working on, and I certainly don't claim to know all (any?) Mac-tricks.

# re: Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Wednesday, July 08, 2009 1:41 PM by Michael

Hi Nate -

Well, one Mac trick is that it doesn't have this bug:

www.dailydoseofexcel.com/.../code-snipit-to-test

Apologies to Kelly for calling him or her as Yup.

...mrt

# re: Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Thursday, July 09, 2009 10:35 PM by Kelly Miller

I come from the Mac side, where I still use Excel v.x (circa 2001), so I have never used v6 VBA goodies and I have been more interested in going from Mac to PC. I never made the switch to Excel Office 2004 on the Mac, and paying for the more recent "upgrade" with its (shall we say) unusual interface and lack of VBA -- well, the case for the upgrade was not compelling.

I agree wholeheartedly that getting rid of VBA in the latest Mac version was a big big mistake. The Microsoft reasons were pretty lame, too. Basically the reason seemed to boil down to "We would have had to rewrite it because of legacy spaghetti code." Well, just rewrite it, then...

# re: Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Friday, July 10, 2009 12:37 PM by Nate Oliver

XL 2004, on a Mac, supports VBA - what I didn't realize is that it's not based on VB6, but VB5. It's 2008 that doesn't ship with VBA, the next release will.

There's some differences, between 2003 and 2004 listed, here:

support.microsoft.com/.../905677

But, not having a Mac readily available, I can't have a peek at the version of VBA that runs on a Mac.

In terms of why Excel 2008, for a Mac, shipped without VBA? There's a few possibilities. Do you have a link to your quoted reason, from the source?

I heard a different bed-time story, but I'm not buying it (so I won't retell it). I have different theory...

# re: Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Friday, July 10, 2009 9:30 PM by Kelly Miller

It took a little bit of digging, but there are a <a:href="www.schwieb.com/.../a> of <a:href="www.schwieb.com/.../a> by programmer Erik Schwiebert of Microsoft's Macintosh Business Unit on the reasons.

These are long posts, and well worth a read. Here are a few snippets:

"VBE is pretty standard C++ code. However, the code is generally very old — it was originally designed and written several years before I came to Microsoft in 1996. ... . The VBE code actually isn’t too hard to port to Intel, but it is tricky to port to Xcode/GCC because of the age of the code. As I mentioned in an earlier post, GCC is very picky about code meeting the current standards and the VBE code most certainly does not. That’s not to say the code is ‘bad,’ it was just designed and written long before current modern C++ standards."

"Again, this is all a design that long predates me or most of my peers in Mac Office, and is code that we inherited when we created the MacBU (i.e, none of us wrote it in the first place.) There’s nothing inherently bad about the code, it was just designed for the constraints of the day and that design simply doesn’t lend itself to being architecture-independent."

"Forms is also C++, but is backed by several thousand lines of gnarly custom assembly. ... I spent almost two weeks massaging this code to try to make it compatible with just the PPC Mach ABI, which is only slightly different from the PPC CFM ABI. Even after all that work, I still didn’t get it completely right and internal builds had some really bad stability problems. We also don’t even have the Win Office 97 Forms source code, so I was not able to compare our code to how it was implemented for Windows."

"Due to the age of the code, VB has been a very large drain on our resources for a long time with relatively little return."

"VBA just wasn’t designed to be portable across architectures. The Mac and Windows implementations are very different, even though the actual language is the same. If I could go back in time about 15 years and tell the original designers to do it differently I would, but I can’t."

My interpretation is definitely less kind than Schweib's, who would have had to write the thing. But the bottom line appears that they faced an ostensibly hard problem and gave up.

I also hear that they are reintroducing VBA in the next version of Excel for the Mac.

# re: Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Friday, July 10, 2009 10:05 PM by Nate Oliver

VBA for a Mac will be back, that's not a secret.

The misnomer in this, is this:

"Due to the age of the code, VB has been a very large drain on our resources for a long time with relatively little return."

Economists would describe this differently: "Cash Cow".

It might be a true pain in the rear to port this to a Unix/Mac Scenario - but they didn't give up because they can't write code?

The issue, imo, has to do with market share. How do you shift the balance?

# re: Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Saturday, July 11, 2009 12:46 PM by Nate Oliver

Thanks for the comment, though, Kelly. This is insightful. While I'm not sure why it doesn't port as is, the Forms/Assembly comment is interesting, as noted here:

mindprod.com/.../unmainlanguage.html

"Inline Assembler: Sprinkle your code with bits of inline assembler just for fun. Almost no one understands assembler anymore. Even a few lines of it can stop a maintenance programmer cold. "

Sounds like more than a few lines...!

# re: Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Sunday, October 25, 2009 5:45 AM by Tony Stein

Hi Guys,

Just converted to Mac - swapped out my Nokia for an iPhone, my PC for an iMac and my laptop for a Mac Book Air. Huge investment but was tired of the way my PC wanted to take over with MS poking it's "recommendations", upgrades, patches, sales of other products at me all the time.

I'm what could be described as an Excel power user - it is integral to what I do so I bought Excel for Mac.

So far I'm pretty disappointed. EVERY TIME and I emphasize that this is without exception that I right click (it's ingrained into how I work on Excel) the programme crashes and I have to Force Quit. This then prompts a "Report to Apple" then nothing. Come on guys. Even Microsoft can be more helpful than this, suggesting reasons for the crash and possible solutions. Time to sort yourselves out before us PC converts start to drift back......

# re: Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Saturday, December 12, 2009 10:40 AM by marilyn

I am thinking of switching from PC to MAC.  I am a huge excel user and will need to communicate with those who use PC's.  I will be sending pc excel files home to the mac and back again

I would be interested if Tony Stein solved his crashing issue.  That might be a deal breaker for me.

# re: Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Thursday, December 17, 2009 1:24 AM by Bernard Vukas

I'm guessing the next version of VBA for Mac will be an upgrade to VBA 6.5 we now have on the PC.

# re: Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:46 PM by ???

I'm amazed, being that you claim to use a pc alot... that you couldnt' figure out how to right click on a mac.  You just google it... lol yeesh

# re: Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Monday, February 22, 2010 3:50 PM by Nate Oliver

Keep in mind I don't use a Mac a lot, although the PC part probably isn't just a claim... I suspect it's reality, seeing as I have 4 versions of Office on one of my PCs.

I was in the middle of project-work for the WPBA, in person, so I was kind of learning on the fly.

# re: Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Sunday, March 07, 2010 6:46 PM by Russell

I am concerned about converting from a pc to a Mac.  I made the switch at home because i was tired of all the preloaded software, how slow the machines get over a short period of time, as well as the viruses the seem to have a problem getting.  I just started playing around with excel am having significant trouble trying to simple things like increase row height for multiple rows.  To me it seems far less user friendly than excel on pc.

# re: Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 5:03 PM by Laurie

I vote for Excel on PC, despite being a total, die-hard Apple fan.

So here's why - I've had a MacBook Pro for about 3 years now and I've absolutely loved using it, and am never switching back to a PC.  The contradiction comes because my day job is as a financial analyst, and I am completely immersed in a relentless world of spreadsheets. Over the years, without consciously trying, I've picked tons of keyboard shortcuts and tricks that make my spreadsheet-creating go super fast. Trying to replicate this on my beloved mac was an absolutely train-wreck.

I've used Office for Mac 2008 Excel, and I've also used Microsoft Office Excel 2007 installed on a Windows partition on a Mac. The Office for Mac is the shoddiest cousin of Excel I've ever seen, so I'm not going to bother attacking it any further.

Excel installed on a Windows partition on the Mac works *mostly* like Excel on a straight-up PC, *except* for any short-cuts that use the Ctrl key. Why? Because, in Macs, the Ctrl key is used as a keyboard complement for right-clicking, i.e. if you don't want to two-finger-tap for right-click, you can hold the Ctrl key down while left-clicking and it achieves the same result. The unfortunate result of that is, if I hold down a Ctrl+ key combination, and drag-and-drop something, it forgets the rest of the command and right-clicks instead. Drives me nuts! I've tried to find a keyboard modifier that'll make my Mac keyboard into a Windows keyboard, but I haven't really found any software for it because apparently people only want to convert Windows keyboards to Macs.

If there is a software out there like that, please *please* tell me!

# re: Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:23 PM by Tuti Mama

Hello,

I know it's been a loong time since you posted all these comments, but I just found this and now I'm really curious to know if you ever had a problem like loosing configuration while working excel files on a mac (that were originally saved on a PC)! I recently started working on a excel for mac, after 2 years with the machine and pretty used to the commands and eveything. my problem now is that my spreadsheets totally loose configuration, everytime I open the files on the mac!!  the columns are misaligned, the numbers don't show on the cells, it prints with another format... it drives me crazy!!

please let me know if you have any tips.

thanks much

# re: Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:46 PM by Nate Oliver

Yes, uninstall the Adobe PDF maker Add-in. Try again. Make sure your print-driver goes at least 600 dpi.

- Nate

# The Age Old Question: Mac or PC? (Laptops)?

Wednesday, December 01, 2010 1:06 PM by Copious-Systems

Someone referenced this post to answer question "The Age Old Question: Mac or PC? (Laptops)?"...

# re: Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Wednesday, March 30, 2011 7:55 AM by Pau

I vote for exel PC by a wide margin.  Who cares what platform it was developed for, that was almost 30 years ago.  I have used  spreadsheets on both PC's and Macs since 1985.  Had a Mac for a few years in the early 90's, and back then the two programs seemed very similar in operation.  Have worked mostly on the PC, but now for the past two years on a Macbook at home and the PC at work.  Right click works fine for me on the Mac, but I guess my biggest gripe is the way windows (small w) work on a Mac vs. PC, combined with the stupid floating formula bar.  It is so annoying and time consuming to be dragging things around the screen constantly to work with multiple windows.  For all the faults Windows has, for me it boils down to what do I do the most?  Excel, and file managment (which for me is also far better on a PC).  Granted, Mac's search function blows Windows... out the window, but all in all, I am strongly considering switching back to PC.  Nothing is perfect, and the Mac is definitely not.  Funny that hardcore Mac users seem so deeply emotionally invested in proclaiming Mac superiority that real criticism are not tolerated.

# re: Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Saturday, May 14, 2011 10:54 PM by Bruce Ward

I admit to being a new user to Mac? Why? I got blown away by the human interface on a iphone and ipad and felt - finally after 26 years with MS-DOS and then MS Windows, it was time to give a Mac a go. Now after three months effort and trial there are some great features with the MacBook Pro but MS Office isn't one of them, and Excel is by far the most disappointing.

Excel on a Mac without VBA and the interface of all the scientific addins, makes it little more that a fancy calculator fro very simple spreadsheets.  When I indicated my concerns  with some dedicated Mac users they looked puzzled and said basically 'Yes, that's why we only use Open Office &  IDL instead'.

Hence my solution re Excel is to run MS Windows 7 and Office for PC on a Bootcamp partition, or use VNC to run Excel on another machine. This helps too with Word as a lot of the excellent add-ins available for a PC aren't available for the Mac version. Can't say much about Outlook as my providers (both for play and work) use a version of Exchange that doesn't work with the latest Office Mac verison

That said, now as a science manager rather than as an active research scientist, the Mac is better at information management than Win 7 [which I loved using before putting my foot in the water (and mouth) shifting to a MacBook Pro as my personal machine]. However, when I dip into programming or high volume data analysis it is still means rebooting onto the bootcamp partition.

On the other hand as to an interface with my info devices (iphone and ipad), web, info searches, pdf generation, VPN access, and interfacing to most computer peripherals (except scientific instruments), and instant boot up, a Mac blows a PC away.

I am sure if I had made the shift 20 years ago, I would not be involved in this discussion as I would be using Open Office and using IDL or Xcode for code development and would not even know what MS Office was.

# re: Excel on a Mac - My Experience

Sunday, May 15, 2011 3:09 PM by Patrick O'Beirne

I was asked to run some code on Excel 2011 for Mac. However it does not allow me to set the Source range for a listbox. And there is no documentation I can find on this version of Excel anything as comprehensive as you can get on the Win version.

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