So why you haven't sued this person yet?

What kind of documentation do you have about what transpired?

Finally, what was Guru.com's response when you reported this issue? You said that they didn't do anything to help -- but what did they say?

Great questions!

First, I haven't sued becuase the amount of money involved is pretty small in legal terms, and there is little chance of a recovery. The person in question lives in Florida, so as I understand it, I'd have to travel there to file the suit, of find an attorney there to represent me. I could be wrong, which is why I'm hoping to have an attorney weigh in on this.

Yes, the work was done under contract, which I may post later.

Thus far guru.com has not said anything at all. If you read their terms of service, you'll see that they conveniently shield themselves from involvement in this sort of thing by insisting that they are merely a payment service.

I should add that I am still waiting for a response from guru.com. They may come through with some help, but based on what I've read, it seems doubtful. When they do respond, I will definitely post what the response is.

How does payment via Guru.com work? Is it tied to a credit card? If so, your credit card company may be willing to back you with this, under their payment protection program...

As Michael stated, there are 2 sides to every story. For all who partake in viewing this Blog, here is the other side of the story!

(Email sent on 01-14-05)
****************************************************
Michael,
I passed on your contact information to my boss last week. Why he has not contacted you, I don’t know?
Just so you know, I decided to leave Iconic back in December, since commissions were slowly dwindling. I’m currently trying to help existing clients wrap up their projects, and plan to leave later this month. Like I told you before, I’m just an independent contractor, and can’t help you with the refund issue, etc. If you want me to help you resolve this, I will before I leave.

I’m not the bad guy here, in fact I tried to help you with a solution, to an easily correctable problem. Why you’ve chosen to take it so far, bewilders me. I would suggest that you stop threatening me, personally. I would also suggest that you stop posting defamatory remarks against myself and Iconic on the internet, unless you are looking for a libel suit.

I have looked at the links you have posted, and request that you remove my name and my phone number from your websites. I’m only going to ask once…. If you have a problem, post your rants on your blog about Iconic, BUT NOT ABOUT ME. I am an honest person, and would like the ability to work in this industry again, as I am a single mother supporting a 5 yr old daughter.

From everything that you’ve shown me regarding the small similarities between the two websites, I can see that a few minor tweaks will fix any problem you foresee. The fact is, even if the designer did draw inspiration from the Creative website, the code is clearly original, as is the logo, color scheme, graphics created, and marketing content created for you.

If I were you, I would not waste time on a lawsuit, threatening emails, and just fix the minor graphic issue yourself (you are a programmer right?), or like I offered before, I can get a designer to make a few quick changes . It seems like you could have already launched your website, and started selling your product, had you done either of the above…

While it’s not my call, I doubt you would be entitled to much of a refund anyway… Looking over your quote, I see that $650 is made up of the Corporate ID package, $350 is product logos and splash screen, and that leaves $1000 for the template design. And as we both know – coming up with a look and feel only accounts to about 20% of the time spent when building HTML pages, slicing images, etc. The remainder money that you could claim as owed to you only accounts for about $200. Does the time you’ve spent writing emails, blog entries, getting friends to send me emails, really merit getting back $200?

Take my advice for what its worth…. I understand if you feel upset about the matter. Based on what you consider to be a potential problem for your website, I’d be upset too.

What you’re not seeing (because your upset) is the fact that you don’t really have much of a case, it would cost more money to fight Iconic, than its worth to you, and that your high-schoolish behavioral attempts to defame me personally, as well as Iconic Media on the internet, has the potential to get you an even bigger lawsuit than you considered pursuing against us. That’s not a threat, but a logical observation.

Please do not send me any further threats, and remove my name and phone number from your website ASAP (I’m asking nicely!). I am not avoiding you, and will gladly talk to you by phone. That is only if you are interested in a reasonable resolution.

Feel free to respond…
Shayna

Looks you have indeed been scammed. I did a reverse
telephone number lookup on google, and it returned
two matches: Iconic Media Inc. and Gemini Media Inc.

Gemini Media, at the same address as Iconic has
gone "out of business". Now Iconic is "in business".

If it was a legitimate company that just changed
thier corporate name, they would have said so.
Instead they shut down one company, and open up
another -- a classic MO used scammers and con artists.

I recommend reporting this to the California Secretary
of State, and to the Better Business Bureau.

Michael,

I definitely think the designer borrowed some ideas from Creative.com, but lots of websites look that way -- web design is kind of in a rut at the moment -- top menu bar with side menu bar combination, and washed-out looking graphics are also very common. I think had she chosen a different color scheme you never would have noticed the similarities here... Can you change the orange color to something different?

Only one item looks "lifted" to me: the footer. Frankly, I don't think there's enough similarity to support your complaint. Also, if the $2000 really did include a coroporate ID package as well as the website, I think you got a good deal. Sorry.

The quote from Shayna did not break down any of the costs on a per-item basis. Instead the quote covered the entire package as a whole. The replacement cost is what is at issues here and not a refund for the amount of time they spent stealing the images. I don't know about you, but if I find out someone tried to sell me one stolen item, I'm sure not going to take their word that the rest is not stolen too. Her actions have ruined any credibility she had and I want no part of any work she has had a part in. If I were to use those materials, it would be me and me alone that Creative or any other third-party would come after. They would not simply ignore the issue or allow me to pass the buck on to the designer of the site. As an upstanding and responsible person, I could not in good concience use materials that I know were stolen. Would you drive an easily identifiable stolen car confident that the receipt in your pocket will protect you from prosecution???

Shayna is chock full of lies and distorted reality. I challenge any reader of this blog to contact anyone from this "Iconic Media". You won't suceed because the whole thing is pure fiction. It's all just smoke and mirrors.

While Shayna would have you believe she wants to and is willing to resolve this, she has had three weeks to do this and has chosen to simply ignore my attempts to contact her. She has NEVER offered any kind of a refund and has only refered me to her "boss", her "billing dept" and her "legal dept" none of which she ever provided contact info for and none of whom have ever contected me through all of this. In an effort to dispense with this, I have even gone so far as to offer to take payments on the refund. I have asked her politely and patiently to stop telling these outlandish lies about this ficticous company and just come clean and deal with this so we can both move on.

Shayna is good at talking the talk, but the facts speak louder. She doesn't even deny that the images were stolen... What more proof do you need?