The Trouble with Premium HDTV (CableCARD) and Microsoft

re: The Trouble with Premium HDTV (CableCARD) and Microsoft

Ryan — Sun, 24 Sep 2006 07:16:34 GMT

The content providers are retarded. They need to wake the *** up and realize that people are willing to pay for HD. FIRST GET THE TECHNOLOGY WORKING THEN WORRY ABOUT DRM.

Bush could run these companies better than them.

re: The Trouble with Premium HDTV (CableCARD) and Microsoft

chrisl — Mon, 14 Nov 2005 21:29:00 GMT

The funny thing about this is that it just encourages peer to peer downloading of media. I like using windows media center, but becuase they dont have the balls to fight for the technology, the world will just adapt and download the shows. Its not like its hard to find the newest shows without commercials on the net. International and private torrent networks are hard to track, and heavily strudied networks like usenet are legal? anyways. Since the mainstream geeks cant get their hdtv shows without commercials in a legitimate enviornment... they will eventually switch. You're only looking at downloading 150-200 mg drm and commercial free files for xvid, ogm or h.264 encoded videos per episode, and it will look and sound BETTER then the dvds you can currently buy thanks to the bluray and hddvd war. The more people on the bandwagon, the faster and more accessible the downloads become. So since microsoft is siding with the content companies and reminding us to sell their stagnant stock, there will be a shift, maybe not as much with lazy, "moral" americans, but worldwide definatly. People should not feel bad about doing this when they already pay... like me... over $100 for this content per month anyway... just give us our freedom or we will take it anyway.

A CableCARD Quote For Thomas...

TrackBack — Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:45:00 GMT

re: The Trouble with Premium HDTV (CableCARD) and Microsoft

chrisl — Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:33:00 GMT

Matt,
I should have qualified my previous post with "...Standard Definition cable, satellite...". Everyting can can be done without hacking which I do not condone. HDTV over cable and satelitte isn't available on the PC because the providers want to "protect" the content. In many cases the HDTV content is just a higher resolution version of existing "unprotected" content.

My issue remians that many companies are implementing DRM under the false pretense that it's needed to protect HDTV. Then they are applying the same DRM to SDTV as well. Protect it from what? It seems to me that HDTV protection is being used as an excuse to remove access to content the people have had for a long time.

As a result of the drive to create a totally secure environment (which will never happen) and "protect" content, we have to wait for existing technology to be supported. The hardware and software to do full screen HDTV on the PC from encrypted digital sources exists today, and will make it to the market on one platform or another. I hope it's a MS platform.

P.S. My Panasonic HDTV runs partly on linux and has CableCARD support.

re: The Trouble with Premium HDTV (CableCARD) and Microsoft

chrisl — Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:20:00 GMT

Mark: What setup are you using to get ecrypted HDTV from both Cable and Sat. into your PC at full resolution?

The answer is that your either using a hacked STB, or your not.

re: The Trouble with Premium HDTV (CableCARD) and Microsoft

chrisl — Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:56:00 GMT

Matt,
The FCC initiative just forces the broadcast of OTA HDTV signals. The DRM being discussed here, and currently applied to cable, satellite and potentially OTA HDTV removes YOUR right to fair use. Anyone can put together a non-MS PC based solution today that will allow a person to use recorded materials from cable, satellite or OTA without restriction. Why can't or won't MS?

Also, there is no such thing as a closed box. Is there any box (reciever or set top box) out there which can't been cracked/hacked/emulated?

re: The Trouble with Premium HDTV (CableCARD) and Microsoft

chrisl — Tue, 04 Oct 2005 02:23:00 GMT

The FCC initiative you are reffering to only applys to over the air broadcasting. It has no impact on HBO or any premium cable, or any cable for that matter. And the only way you won't be able to record digital television in this context (over the air) is if the MPAA and the like are successful in pushing through the "Broadcas Flag". That is a totally seperate issue from CableCards and DRM.

"Premium Cable" is already encrypted, and has been since HBO went ont the air way back when. The DRM we are talking about here is finally giving us direct access to that encrypted premium cable. No cludgey STB in the middle, no need for IRBlasters and added complexity to get those channels. Not to metion the eventual ability (with bidirectional cablecards) to order Payper view and etc.

Really this discussion isn't really about Standard Def TV anyway. HDTV is the real issue. The ability to record and timeshift FULL RESOLUTION HDTV, something that can only be done today with over the air HDTV or with a proprietary STB PVR from your cable or satellite provider.

re: The Trouble with Premium HDTV (CableCARD) and Microsoft

chrisl — Mon, 03 Oct 2005 23:16:00 GMT

I believe Foster meant that we can record TV shows now without all of this DRM nonsense. Then the FCC decides to convert the country's TV to digital, requiring new displays and equipment. Out of nowhere, Hollywood grabs this as a chance to revenge old court rulings against them from the VCR era and starts adding these DRM methods.

With premium cable and a VCR, you could subscribe to HBO and timeshift or archive whatever and whenever you wanted. No video tape ever erased itself or refused to record something. Digital television isn't something Hollywood is marketing to consumers as an added value product. It's a government mandate. It's similiar to the change from B&W to color TV in the 50's...we still get the same actors, writing, stories, and advertisements, just in a different format. Recording analog or digital television onto a VHS tape, Betamax tape, a hard drive, a CD-R, a DVD-R shouldn't change any timeshifting or archiving ability consumers have.

Hollywood propaganda wants to make you think differently.

re: The Trouble with Premium HDTV (CableCARD) and Microsoft

chrisl — Mon, 03 Oct 2005 19:34:00 GMT

Foster: How are you recording this HD content on your PC? You're not! You can't record it now, you don't lose anything. The content is already protected from the source, getting into any device (PC, STB, etc) means that devices must meet the bar set by the content owners/protection system creators.

re: The Trouble with Premium HDTV (CableCARD) and Microsoft

chrisl — Mon, 03 Oct 2005 19:30:00 GMT

What is the big deal with DRM. I can record TV now, should I loose that ability because HD will provide the same content just in a better format? I am too far to get OTA so cablecard is one thing I am looking forward too. This DRM thing really has me frustrated, it is killing or hindering technology that would be useful to honest people.

They tried doing the same with the VCR, could you imaging where we would be had they won. Hopefully big money doesn't win this second attempt.

re: The Trouble with Premium HDTV (CableCARD) and Microsoft

chrisl — Mon, 03 Oct 2005 18:01:00 GMT

Carlos, I never said it wouldn't be cracked. Most reasonably intelligent people know never say never when it comes to Technology.

The goal of Vista and to a certain extent DRM in general isn't to completely prevent copying. The goal is to make it difficult or complex enough that the vast majority of uses can't or won't attempt it. Even CSS has been mostly successful on that front. Below is the link to the Microsoft "Output Content Protection" page:

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/stream/output_protect.mspx

As far as Xbox goes, Connect that hax0r3d Xbox to Xbox Live and find out if their hardware was successful or not.

re: The Trouble with Premium HDTV (CableCARD) and Microsoft

chrisl — Mon, 03 Oct 2005 14:20:00 GMT

If you think WPA and/or WGA relates in anyway to what's in Vista you might be the on crack. It's rather clear from your statements that you actually don't know the first thing about the technology, you just want a point to argue (a poor one at that)

re: The Trouble with Premium HDTV (CableCARD) and Microsoft

chrisl — Mon, 03 Oct 2005 04:44:00 GMT

Anyone who doesn't believe it'll be cracked in less than one week... is on crack. This is Microsoft (creators of WPA and WGA... both cracked less than 24 hours after their public introduction). I'm giving Vista a week, and that's being generous. Chris, if you even had a million to give out like candy, you wouldn't be here... :)

Wasn't XBox hardware-based protection? Wasn't XBox devised by the brains at MS? It got cracked... What makes you think this is any different. I don't have to read anything on MS's website. The question is... is DVD Jon reading it?

re: The Trouble with Premium HDTV (CableCARD) and Microsoft

chrisl — Mon, 03 Oct 2005 00:06:00 GMT

Carlos, read the white paper on "Output Content Protection" microsoft's website. The DRM in Vista is hardware and software based. It's going to be much, much more difficult to crack than anything we've seen thus far in DRM. Anyone that claims otherwise hasn't looked into the OCP very closely.

re: The Trouble with Premium HDTV (CableCARD) and Microsoft

chrisl — Sun, 02 Oct 2005 19:40:00 GMT

Very nice synopsis of the situation at hand Chris. And you are probably right. Still. If it's coming in Vista why not just quiet the whole controversy down and come out and say it? I know Charlie gave me a number of reasons why MSFT stays quiet about things. But at this point I don't get which could apply. If it's really coming, let's hear it.

http://thomashawk.com/2005/10/trouble-with-premium-hdtv-cablecard.html

re: The Trouble with Premium HDTV (CableCARD) and Microsoft

chrisl — Sun, 02 Oct 2005 15:26:00 GMT

If it gets "cracked in less than one week" I'll give you $1 millions Carlos.

re: The Trouble with Premium HDTV (CableCARD) and Microsoft

chrisl — Sun, 02 Oct 2005 14:36:00 GMT

Fine, MS, wait for Vista and fool CableLabs. Anything MS puts in Vista for DRM WILL get cracked in less than one week. My odds-on favorite is DVD Jon breaking it, but there are literally tens of thousands of people who will be working on this "problem space". You read it here first.