What Content Will Be Crippled When Output in Vista?

DefectiveByDesign's Anti-DRM Campaign Gets Trashed by Digg Readers

Chris Lanier's Blog — Sat, 24 Mar 2007 22:53:11 GMT

Something that I personally find hilarious is that DefectiveByDesign, the Anti-DRM Group that was formed

Don't worry certified Media Center OEMs are required to provide upgrades to defeat copy protection ;)

ColinM — Fri, 16 Mar 2007 22:51:37 GMT

Noticed that there is convenient double negative in the OEM compliance letter to CableLabs. Looks like OEMs that sign the compliance letter will be required to break copy protection ;)

Check it out:

http://www.opencable.com/downloads/MCE_HMS_Compl

iance_Letter.pdf

Section 5:

Except as provided in Section 6 of this Compliance Letter, each MCE HMS of the model identified aot shall be at the time of manufacture be compliant with the Agreement and as manufactured and and distributed, no feature or functionality of MCE HMS shall (a) technically disrupt, impede, or impair the delivery of services to a cable customer; (b) cause physical harm to the network of the CableCARD; (c) facilitate theft of server or otherwise interfere with reasoable actions taken by cable operators to prevent theft of service; (d) jeopardize the security of the any services offered of the cable system; or (e) interfere of disable the ability of the a cable operator to communicate or disable a CableCARD or MS OCUR or to disable services being transmitted through a CableCARD or MS OCUR. Futher, Company shall not <b>shall not</b> intentionally provide, promote, or distribute subsequent modifications, upgrades, downloads, modules or plug-ins to the MCE HMS that defeat this requirement.

Take Vista Search To The Next Level | Latent Semantic Indexing

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CoreHD » Blog Archive » News and updates from the DRM front

CoreHD » Blog Archive » News and updates from the DRM front — Thu, 08 Feb 2007 07:13:16 GMT

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re: What Content Will Be Crippled When Output in Vista?

chrisl — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 14:39:48 GMT

From CableLabs

"The OCUR removes the OpenCable Copy Protection encryption, which protects the interface between the Card and any OpenCable Host device, and replaces it with a DRM protection that provides a layer of encryption at the content level persistent until the authorized consumption of that service"

re: What Content Will Be Crippled When Output in Vista?

chrisl — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 14:28:13 GMT

Since the PC is an open platform, not a closed one such as a TiVo, the content must stay protected. You will have to ask CableLabs why this is, but as I understand it the content comes into the OCUR, is wrapped with WMDRM (or it could actually be wrapped in Real's DRM, it's also approved) and then the protected file is written to the hard drive.

I would love for this to be incorrect, and in a another month and a half we will be able to know for sure. :)

re: What Content Will Be Crippled When Output in Vista?

rob — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 07:27:10 GMT

Chris...Your interpretation of CableLabs' requirements defies common sense. Why would the CP specs incorporate and respect the various flagged states of content, including the "copy-freely" state, if there was no intention to allow that content to be accessible?

re: What Content Will Be Crippled When Output in Vista?

chrisl — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 04:38:33 GMT

Considering the standard OpenCable Content Protection is removed by the OCUR and replaced by with WMDRM, I don't think you can say it's not a requirement. CableLabs are the people who do the OCUR stuff, OEM's like ATI just follow what ATI has set. So yes, CableLabs does require (per OCUR specs) that the content (all of it) be protected. It's defined in the OCUR specs and in the DRI specs.

re: What Content Will Be Crippled When Output in Vista?

rob — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 23:08:09 GMT

Chris, CableLabs seems to be taking the brunt of the blame for the crippling effects that Vista may have on user's HD video. In reality, Microsoft simply has let the ball drop with their implementation of the CableLabs requirements. CableLabs does NOT require that all content recorded using a CableCard be protected; regardless, the Microsoft content protection method will apply encryption to all recorded content. Microsoft could have avoided this if they had taken the effort to design a system that only applied encryption to content flagged as requiring protection. The same applies to burning content to DVD. CableLabs does not prohibit this, only on content purposely flagged to prohibit copying. Microsoft's implementation however, will prohibit Vista users from burning their CableCard recorded programs to DVD.

For comparison, take a look at the Scientific Atlanta MCP-100 DVR/DVD Recorder. Vista Media Center's PVR functions should be able to match any ability the MCP-100 has, as this device complies with all CableLabs requirements while allowing users more freedom than Vista.

HxBro’s Blog » Vista Crippled DRM output?

HxBro’s Blog » Vista Crippled DRM output? — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:32:31 GMT

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re: What Content Will Be Crippled When Output in Vista?

chrisl — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 23:48:17 GMT

Yes, two sets of rules. AACS rules for HD DVD and Blu-ray. CableLabs rules for CableCARD.

HD DVD and Blu-ray work as per above. CableCARD using VGA you will only get 540p, using Component you can get 1080i if CIT is not set (CableLabs version of ICT). It's defined by CableLabs which is actually defined more by Hollywood, the same people who set the rules for AACS.

Basically, you want HDMI-HDCP. If you buy anything, get HDMI-HDCP. Then you have nothing to worry about. The world has been going this way for a while, buy HDCP! With that, 1080p output on all HD DVD and Blu-ray (ICT or not), and 1080i with CableCARD (CIT or not).

re: What Content Will Be Crippled When Output in Vista?

Alex — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 20:24:38 GMT

Just so I am clear, are there two sets of rules in Vista for HD output...one for HD-DVD/BR-DVD and one for CableCard recorded HDTV?

You mention that Vista will allow HD-DVD output over VGA or component cable to a monitor, as long as the ICT is not set on a title. However, that same monitor will not be able to display HDTV content over the VGA/Component cable, even if the cable-equivalent of the ICT is not set. This must be a mistake, as my Scientific Atlanta DRV is able to display through both VGA and component connections with no loss in resolution. Am I missing something?

re: What Content Will Be Crippled When Output in Vista?

chrisl — Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:29:16 GMT

Didier: No.

The content protection system on HD DVD's and Blu-ray requires HDCP if you are using a digital output (DVI/HDMI). That has nothing to do with Vista. It also applies to Windows XP, any OS attempting to playback AACS protected content, and standalone CE players.

If you don't have HDCP, you will have to use an analog connection, such as VGA as per AACS rules. If ICT is set on a title, VGA output will be output at 540p as per AACS rules. Again, applies to Windows XP, Vista, any other HD DVD/Blu-ray player.

It works the same on Windows XP as it does on Windows Vista.

VGA better than DVI-D

Didier — Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:16:17 GMT

I am a little bit confused. You mean that vista will prevent HD video playback on DVI-D but not on VGA db15 and (maybe DVI-A).

Playing a HD content with 1080p/i or 720p/i on VGA will be far better than a 480p/i on DVI-D.

Industry push DVI-D claiming that it's really better than VGA. That is laughable. If it's true they are ridiculous.

Justkeep an "old" computer to install vista or even XP for HD DVD playback on VGA.

re: What Content Will Be Crippled When Output in Vista?

Neil Grogan — Sun, 28 Jan 2007 23:33:33 GMT

I would like to thank you for clearing this up. I am a Linux/Mac user so this won't really affect me until the market for Vista takes off and I have to support it, but it is nice to know the situation is not as bad as once thought. I see Microsoft moving in a new direction, which hopefully is a more honest one. I think you should now explain why you impose some (albeit small at this point) restrictions. If it wasn't an internal Microsoft decision, tell us which consortium/industry lobby wanted these features. Theb if consumer backlash occurs (which I think frankly, is inevitable) you can at least say it wasn't your fault, but you had these conditions imposed on you. Microsoft could take on the media companies, but I think that may be too bold a direction at this point somehow.

Neil Grogan

http://www.dueyfinster.eu

=========================

re: What Content Will Be Crippled When Output in Vista?

chrisl — Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:23:21 GMT

Thanks John, if you will notice I talked about that in the comments section, where I said the exact same thing. :)

re: What Content Will Be Crippled When Output in Vista?

John — Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:19:13 GMT

Your article, despite complaining about less than accurate media reporting, is itself rather misleading.

Yes, you are right in that there are few differences between XP and Vista.

However, you completely gloss over the really big problem with the AACS requirements. An unencrypted digital output is not one of the allowed output formats for AACS encrypted content. If, like many computers sold today, your computer uses DVI without HDCP you won't be able to play AACS encrypted content. At all. Whether ICT is set or not is irrelevant (ICT only applys to analog outputs).

The only way around this is to switch to VGA, which is not a great solution for the obvious reasons.

Bit torrentWeblog

Bit torrentWeblog — Sun, 28 Jan 2007 17:27:27 GMT

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- » What Content will be crippled when Output in Vista? — Sun, 28 Jan 2007 04:47:56 GMT

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