The Story of CableLabs Certification

re: The Story of CableLabs Certification

codemastr — Sun, 31 Dec 2006 06:04:26 GMT

People need to lobby. This doesn't just affect MCE, remember all those users out there running third-party DVR software, and all those people not running Windows at all! CableLabs was setup by the government, it can be changed by the government. People need to contact their Congressmen, the FCC, even CableLabs, and anyone else you think can help. Get others on your side. If individuals do it, it might help. Get a few companies involved and it goes a bit further. There are many small HTPC companies out there who are not MS partners who want to provide this product. They can't right now. Convince them to help lobby for a change! We should express our dissatisfication to the Linux community (I assume someone like Red Hat could invest some time/effort in lobbying if they believe this is a marketable feature), and express dissatisfication to both ATI and Microsoft. Convince them that they could make more money if they convince the government to change the policy.

In any case, I'm convinced this will be broken pretty quickly. A motherboard bit? Sounds like a hacked BIOS can take care of that. I can't possibly imagine it relies on hardware. How does Niveus plan to offer upgrades? Did they get detailed specs long before everyone else and manage to get hardware out there possibly even before OCUR support was announced? It has to be software. A special COA? Uhh, don't think someone's gonna get around that? People have been hacking the MS licensing stuff pretty easily. I'm sure someone will crack this eventually. I mean, someone already found the keys necessary for HDDVD and BluRay encryption. I'm sure they'll get this too!

I'm all for doing it legally, however, if (and presumably when) someone hacks it, and the digital cable world doesn't come to an end, it's possible that CableLabs will open it up.

re: The Story of CableLabs Certification

Bob — Thu, 28 Dec 2006 15:43:46 GMT

Wow, talk about crushing defeat. I'm a young programmer, and for the past couple months have been working on starting a small HTPC building biz. I thought I could offer a low-priced, versatile, fun machine for the average person to enjoy digital content (including cable). My personal machines are full of illegal OSs, apps, music, etc.. But I figured, hey, if I'm going to sell these things I should do it legally, that must be possible (althought I've never tried it). I've called MSFT, looked in all the legal channels. And this is what I find. It's really discouraging, and honestly makes me feel stupid for even considering that I could start something new.. legally. Thanks for the information nonetheless.

re: The Story of CableLabs Certification

Kevin — Fri, 15 Dec 2006 19:14:43 GMT

Transfering the core componets and making your own upgrades doesnt seem to be much of an issue for me, my only problem is the fact that the computer manufaturer (dell/HP) will put all of their programs into Media Center (HP imagezone, etc.)

re: The Story of CableLabs Certification

sgtpokey — Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:27:06 GMT

ok, just for theory's sake:

So what you need to activate CableCard on Vista MCE:

1. The OCUR Device

2. The COA key

3. The "special" motherboard with the OCUR bit set

4. Possibly an unlocked version of the Vista MCE OS (although that might be taken care of with point #2)

So if I was hell-bent on maintaining my spiffy fanless HTPC case (the mcubed one for those interested), I in theory COULD:

1. Find a MCE PC maker that builds a MCE PC with the motherboard that I want and order this complete "Digital Ready Vista MCE Computer".

2. Transfer the relevant computer innards (sounds like just the motherboard, Hard Drive [for the OS], and OCUR device) to my existing HTPC case and components.

In theory that would work right? (Cost and practicality not a factor at the moment, just trying to see if it's possible).

re: The Story of CableLabs Certification

kballs — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 02:12:06 GMT

How would you add multiple QAM/OCUR tuners? The "Digital Cable Ready PC" that you bought is likely to only come with 1. Would you be forced to buy them from the OEM or could you go down to the local electronics store and get some extra USB 2.0 QAM/OCUR tuners?

It really makes no sense to require a special PC, BIOS, motherboard, etc. It only makes sense to have certified tuner cards/boxes and certified/signed drivers, since it not only allows the user to have a choice of tuners and PCs, but it make support a lot easier (what happens if you need to repair the PC, or reinstall the OS?).

All this makes me want to do is stay with old analog cable and not get screwed over for thousands of dollars and/or get stuck with a less than functional Media Center.

re: The Story of CableLabs Certification

Jeff — Thu, 30 Nov 2006 21:12:00 GMT

Perhaps a bit off-topic, but somewhat related:

As far as I know, the OCUR is a QAM tuner which uses a cablecard to handle encrypted channels. What about the unencrypted QAM channels which represent local broadcast stations? These are typically the only channels I really care about...

I know using OTA ATSC tuners will work in even MCE 2005 (and hence no need for a Vista upgrade), but OTA has its own set of reception challenges for many people. That leaves a cable connection: How do Vista users get these unencrypted channels into Media Center?

This whole digital-ready PC situation is really frustrating. It penalizes the common user who bought an OEM MCE machine for thousands, and forces them to buy a new OEM "digital-ready" PC for thousands more. It penalizes the small OEM system builder by locking them out of legitimate markets. It penalizes the DIY enthusiast from innovating and building a machine that goes beyond what OEMs offer.

re: The Story of CableLabs Certification

chrisl — Tue, 28 Nov 2006 00:42:11 GMT

OCUR = USB Digital CableCARD Tuner (Digital Cable Tuner)

As the quote puts out, "be sure to connect the Digital Cable Tuner to a specially-marked Digital Cable Ready Windows Media Center computer."

The OCUR will connect to the computer via USB, either external or internal through basic USB headers.

These "specially-marked Digital Cable Ready Windows Media Center computer(s)" are the OEM PC's that will be sold with the OCUR's.

Before you can get the OCUR (Digital Cable Tuner), you must purchase the whole PC from an OEM that will ship with the OCUR.

WMDRM is used to secure the content, mixed with PVP.

re: The Story of CableLabs Certification

Ross — Tue, 28 Nov 2006 00:30:36 GMT

Chris, you say 'Correct' to Alberto, but you say we won't be able to buy an OCUR device by itself. Would an OCUR device be different from a USB Digital Cable Tuner then? How else would we be able to connect a digital tuner via USB?

If there was going to be an external USB digital tuner available, it would presumably have to use some kind of DRM over the USB wire. Is that possible? Is there a PVP technology spec'd for data transfer over USB?

Thanks, Ross.

re: The Story of CableLabs Certification

chrisl — Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:25:04 GMT

Correct. "Digital Cable Ready - Windows Media Center computer" are the PC's that will include the OCUR and you can't purchase the OCUR by itself.

re: The Story of CableLabs Certification

Alberto — Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:05:34 GMT

So according to the Vista help files (for Home Premium and Ultimate) user's will be able to connect future "Digital Cable Tuners" via USB to Vista, but as the blog suggests only to certified Vista PCs marked as "Digital Cable Ready".

Snippet:

Connect the Digital Cable Tuner to your Windows Media Center computer via the USB 2.0 port using an A/B USB cable. To ensure that the Digital Cable Tuner is able to receive premium cable content, be sure to connect the Digital Cable Tuner to a specially-marked Digital Cable ReadyWindows Media Center computer.

Full URL:

http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/aa79e7b4-e423-4459-ad22-1c240a8ffcd51033.mspx

re: The Story of CableLabs Certification

Crim — Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:32:47 GMT

Ah! So you need a special COA and mobo for it to work. Wow, what a way to alienate your customer base but there isn't much that can be done since it's CableLabs.

Thats really too bad.

re: The Story of CableLabs Certification

chrisl — Mon, 20 Nov 2006 03:04:45 GMT

Freebird

The certification of the whole PC is/was an "urban legend". That's what my post is saying. :)

re: The Story of CableLabs Certification

chrisl — Mon, 20 Nov 2006 02:40:24 GMT

Thank you "Insider" for saying what I didn't/couldn't. =)

That's how it works folks.

re: The Story of CableLabs Certification

Freebird — Mon, 20 Nov 2006 02:33:43 GMT

(Reposted)

I listened to the podcast with Kevin Shields, and it left me very suspicious of the whole deal. I expected to hear about the certification process, instead most of what I heard was about how you had to buy your Windows MCE licenses directly from Microsoft (presumably in a large volume) rather than through a third party like most of us do.

Has anyone acutally confirmed that this whole "certify the whole PC at Cable Labs" process actually exists? Has anyone talked to Cable Labs? What does Niveus say?

I'm beginning to wonder if the certification of the whole PC is an urban legend. It seems very possible that what actually happens is that Cable Labs certifies the OCUR device only (like Anand said) and then Microsoft gives out licenses to its "preferred partners" on some basis that hasn't got squat to do with the hardware.

@Insider: how do you know all this, and, if true, is there any chance a company like Shuttle will be allowed to come to our rescue with CableCard enabled barebone systems?

re: The Story of CableLabs Certification

Insider — Mon, 20 Nov 2006 02:21:28 GMT

You won't be able to enable CableCard even if you have a OCUR device in your hands. You need a seperate COA (license key) to activate it and the motherboard will have a cablecard bit that needs to be enabled. Only OEMs can get this COA.

This is not Microsoft's fault. It is CableLabs who said it is this or nothing to Microsoft.

This is something that should be brought to the Federal Trade Commission's attention (not FCC). This could be considered a "boycott" (maybe?) that resticts competitors from entering the market. (http://www.ftc.gov/bc/compguide/illegal.htm). However, by the time the FTC actually got around to hearing the case and adjudicating, I'm sure the next big thing in cable access already by released...

How CableLabs will certify Vista’s Media Center for HDTV » FloppyHead - A Media Center, Digital Video Recorder, and HTPC Resource

Sun, 19 Nov 2006 02:32:36 GMT

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re: The Story of CableLabs Certification

chrisl — Sat, 18 Nov 2006 23:47:51 GMT

Griffon

CableLabs IS a "nonprofit research and development consortium". IIRC it was formed because of the FCC wanted an outside organization to handle it.

re: The Story of CableLabs Certification

chrisl — Sat, 18 Nov 2006 23:38:15 GMT

Hey guys, I deleted someone's comment without publishing it (auto marked as spam).

I didn't get a good look at it, so if you posted a comment and don't see if please repost!

Thanks!

Chris

re: The Story of CableLabs Certification

Griffon — Fri, 17 Nov 2006 18:11:34 GMT

Right. This process is an abomination. We (and by we, I mean the government without out the peoples express permission) have given a private company power over what can receive cable signal. A power that clearly should reside with a non biased not for profit group like say the FCC (Ok well I guess you can scratch the unbiased part off, but stil...). This system clearly needs to be obliterated along with with cablelabs, there is no conceivable reason for their existence in the modern world other then to protect an incumbent monopoly, which is totally insane and completely unneeded in todays market place. Somebody get an antitrust violation rolling on these guys.

Zatz Not Funny!»Blog Archive » Digital Media Bytes

Zatz Not Funny!»Blog Archive » Digital Media Bytes — Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:59:59 GMT

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