Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

re: Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

vince — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:10:19 GMT

I agree with Geoff.

I am a techie have tons of storage and I don't want WHS! It is such a incompelete product it's like buying tires and rims for a car that doesn't even exist. Meaning even if you wanted to you could never really use them.

WHS's only hope would be as an add on for Media Center! Media Center is a real product, WHS a software add on!

The only way I see Media Center working is:

Release a Media Center Server with WHS installed (I know it doesn't work like that but I'm saying it like that for a reason). Make it an appliance as WHS today, not monitor option at all! No Keyboard, no mouse no nothing!

What does that solve. Well for one cablelabs and anyone else should be happy. You can stream it encrypted to Players.

Speaking of players. They need to have some kind of solid state ROM to boot off of, or at least install Media Center Extender on the HD. I mean it is not going to work for the main stream to tell them to press this button and wait 30 seconds for media center to respond!

I should preface this with I have been an MCSE from 1999 upgrading all the way to today!

DO I think this will ever happen. No. I don't think Microsoft has ever gotten anything right, except for maybe MS Exchange! I waited for Microsoft to get it right for years, but it never happned. Where does that leave me today? With a brand new iPhone 3Gs and Macbook Pro... Granted I have Vista installed on VMWare Fusion, but for the most part I've switched!

Someday I think Apple will step in any make Media Center the right way. Someday I will go to Richmond and ask these people why and how they always get it so wrong!

re: Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

Geoff — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 03:05:54 GMT

new to this blog, but I need to add a few comments.

1) WMC works great for me. We don't have Cable Card here (Australia) and OTA digital TV is HD. OTA is how most people watch TV. WMC does all of this very well. Adding (digital, analogue, SD, HD, whatever) tuners to a PC has been - for many years - as simple as adding a printer or any other peripheral. This stuff 'just works'. I read the comments about tuners and think that Cable Card is a US-only complication.

2) I don't 'get' WHS at all. What does it actually do for me that I can't do already with a normal PC (and/or perhaps a NAS hard disk)? And because it can only be bought as a hw+SW combo, I can't install it on an existing PC and see for myself. So nobody buys it. Do I really want another 'PC' (or server) in the house? Especially one I can't use for even simple tasks (email/web)?

3) Conclussion: Kill WHS. Put those functions into Windows 7. Leave WMC in Windows 7.

4) Noisy PCs are not a good experience in the TV room. We need either *SILENT* PCs (eg: Dell mini 9 - no moving parts at all), or *SILENT* extenders. Silent PCs can't do HD graphics, so extenders will be the best option for a while yet.

5) I currently use the Linksys DMA 220 DVD/extetender. It's great. I won't be replacing it until there's a Bluray version, although I'm in no hurry to do Bluray just now anyway. I guess I'll keep using the Linksys for a while.

6) Whatever happened to remote desktop? This seems like an ideal solution. Remote Desktop transports the *entire* PC screen to a thin device - so it means the TV (or whatever) can do everything that the host PC can do. Want to straighten a picture? Want to surf the web? Want to run MS Oulook? Want some bizzare new codec? Want to play chess or solitaire? - no extender can do all of this, and it isn't the best way to try. Remote desktop to a 'real' PC and present the screen onto my TV. That way I get everything. Wyse - where the hell are you!!!

re: Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

Cassandra Soo — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:07:50 GMT

Nice article. Some people mentioned TiVo's OTA in their comments. TiVo is actually pushing their message about getting free HD over the air signals through a YouTube video: www.youtube.com/watch

re: Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

The Jedi — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 05:00:43 GMT

The Idealist versus the Realist. (Ben and Jon versus Chris). I'm more of a realist myself (pessimist, cynic?), but I guess we all have to have a baseline of the ideal to refer to.

I don't have a point, I just want to thank all the parties involved for this very stimulating debate. As a small time OEM I just find this discussion extremely fascinating.

I think historically it's only wise to question Microsoft's commitment to follow through.

As a Microsoft partner I do appreciate the opportunity to carve out a niche and evangelize what they have enabled, but maybe have failed to properly market.

re: Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

chrisl — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 20:37:11 GMT

You give your business a fantastic name by calling your potential customers "foolish." If you can't believe people listen to me, why you are reading and replying? By association that makes you foolish, no?

You heard of Saturn and Pontiac? Look at what GM built over the years, now they don't exist because they have to focus on "core platforms."

How many Media Center's have you sold over the past month? Seems your doing just great, so maybe you should focus your time on your business instead of getting online and calling your customers "fools."

re: Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

Ray Casey — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:01:50 GMT

Chris you are not as smart and informed as you think you are. Your hubris is truly offensive. Simply look at Toyota/Lexus and Honda/Acura re how they built brands over years. But trying to make a point to you is willful and useless... I cannot believe people listen to you BS and ranting... U r a fool with a foolish audience... There is a place for Xbox, Media Center and WHS just like there is a market place for a lexus and toyota (same platform fool) and suv's and hybrid's (different form factor and purpose). Just because they make a Hybrid and a SUV does that mean their market is challenged, or they don't listen to customer feed back? NO. You logic stinks... Get back on whatever you where on when you went quite for a while... u need more time off to correct your ego and anger

re: Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

Luke — Fri, 29 May 2009 10:35:42 GMT

Hi,

i agree with you on one point:

this WHS+MC will probably not integrate very well with zune, Xbox, ... maybe in 5 years, but not in 2010. just to expensive

But:

i think this stand-alone tuner-server-box is necessary for the TV on the PC scenario to work because:

-Normal PC's will not be reliable enough. if this product is not VERY RELIABLE, it is not useable

-if you simply put tuners in your normal PC, you have to leave it on all the time and think about it: this is WAY too complicated

-Most people don't even have desktops in their homes anymore!!!!!

so my point is that this "server" is not more but much less complicated than adding tuners to your desktop(if you even have one).

The only question for me is: how do you get people to buy this thing?

1)the cost for purchasing this box can not be too high

2)marketing: show people what the box can do in a very non-nerdy way

re: Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

Jon Deutsch — Thu, 28 May 2009 00:02:25 GMT

Hey Chris,

If by "Joe" you mean "Jon," then yeah, I'm interested. You'll have to let me know which direction you think would be better to take -- Digital Lifestyle or TGB.

It'd be great to be another voice in the ecosystem -- thanks for the offer.

Please email me at jon@capitalddesign.com to continue the conversation.

Thanks,

Jon

re: Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

Jon Deutsch — Wed, 27 May 2009 03:34:56 GMT

Kevin,

You write:

"I think one thing everyone is missing is that you need a WIRED network for media center and windows home server to work together. How many homes have one? Not that many. Every extender needs to be wired.

If it could all work wirelessly, then it might be mass market. But that is not happening anytime soon."

Just so you know, this is not true. All extenders have wireless capabilities. Yes, you need a good wireless-N router (with relatively close range) to make it work, but it's doable. In addition, power-based Ethernet is another viable option if you don't want to rely on wireless.

Cheers,

Jon Deutsch

jon@capidalddesign.com

re: Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

chrisl — Tue, 26 May 2009 19:12:16 GMT

Joe:

Let me know if your interested in starting a Media Center blog. You have a lot to say and I like that.

I can set you up with a blog on The Green Button, or I'm sure Ian Dixon can set you up with a Digital Lifestyle blog on thedigitallifestyle.com.

If you are interested, let us know.

re: Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

Jon Deutsch — Tue, 26 May 2009 19:01:10 GMT

[con't from above, due to size limits]

At the core, what I'm advocating here is a design project. The fundamental capabilities exist... they just need to be designed in a fashion that will unleash new value in the marketplace.

In terms of where I get all of these crazy ideas from, this is the kind of stuff that my consulting firm, Capital D Design, specializes in.

Jon Deutsch

jon@capitalddesign.com

re: Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

Jon Deutsch — Tue, 26 May 2009 18:09:30 GMT

[con't from above]

It's a problem of super-smart people trying to demonstrate value and convenience. What this translates into is functionality/feature overload. The result? Muffled brands, confusing interfaces, and more Apple sales.

Let me restate this again to ensure clarity: Vista/Win7 are PC operating systems. WMC is an elegant media access experience. The two have such hugely different purposes that they have no business being bundled.

Look - I'm one of those Microsoft supporters who was thrilled that WMC was bundled with Vista. And, I don't own a single Apple product. But that's because I'm the kind of person who enjoys complexity, problem solving, and tremendous value. I'm willing to learn, tweak and customize a technology to suit my individual needs. I'm willing to do research and learn all about which version of Vista has WMC in it. And I'm willing to setup a PC and gut it in order to make it look like (and sound like) a normal A/V component so I can pretend that I'm not geeky enough to have a PC in my family room. It's all quite rewarding! But I know I'm the deep minority. As technology becomes increasingly commoditized, most people are demanding better, more elegant experiences. Typically, this means single-use devices/services that do a few things really well. And then they want another device/app/service that does another thing really well. Y'know, the whole "there's an app for that!" mentality. This is actually where Media Center shines brightly: WMC is really a very "Apple-esque" product that is already designed for consumers. It does a few things quite well... it's just that it's marketed, packaged and supported like a power-user/customizer's tool. Hence the frustration out there... we see a true gem in our midst, but its being sold as a series of interrelated molecules to scientists.

-CL->Knowing that Media Center has failed to capture this market over the past 6 years, would you give eHome the budget to do such a thing? I wouldn't. And considering their usage data, customers are not interested in what you are pushing. I'm interested, but the market isn't. That's not my opinion, that's the public data that is out there from Media Center users and test groups. <-CL-

Haha... great questions! No, I would not give the current eHome team a budget to do this based on how I see the management decisions from an external perspective. However, I -- the one with this vision for a real media hub strategy that I believe is a real untapped market on par with the home computer -- would scour the Microsoft talent pool and assemble a swat team to hit this, and hit it hard. I believe that with the right focus, investment and revenue goals in hand, there is the talent and passion within Microsoft to introduce a game-changer here, because they already have such a huge head-start in all of the back-end investments required to make this work. WHS and WMC already exist. WLS is emerging as well, providing that "cloud" component that would also be required to make it the new killer app.

Microsoft is an amazing technology firm, but it has lost any cohesive consumer vision for itself in terms of long-term goals ever since they've succeeded in getting a "PC in every home."

I'm not espousing that "Microsoft manages your media" is the sole replacement for their initial goal of a PC in every home, but it's certainly a contender as a logical extension that is expressed through specifically-designed offerings.

At its core, what I'm advocating here is a design project. The fundamental capabilities exist... they just need to

re: Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

Scott — Tue, 26 May 2009 18:07:05 GMT

I honestly think MCE is a testbed for Xbox 360 and beyond. In the furure the Xbox dashboard will evolve and IPTV will work with the Xbox. Home Server will be a Storage for music, pictures and personal video. Apple is doing the same with Time Machine Apple TV and iPod/iPhone. They see no importance of actually storing movie libraries.

re: Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

Jon Deutsch — Tue, 26 May 2009 17:17:47 GMT

Hi Chris,

Responding to your response...

-CL-> yet again I ask if I can't do all of these amazing things with my Windows Vista or Windows 7 PC, why in the world would Microsoft spend the time to develop them just for a "Media Hub" that has such a small market.

<-CL-

I guess the disagreement here would be the prospective size of the home media market. One could have asked the same question to Sony when they developed the Walkman back in the 70s... who the heck would want a tape player attached to themselves all day long? What kind of market is there, anyway?

The most successful innovators are driven by a belief more than market research. Bill Gates fundamentally *believed* that people would want personal computers in every home. The actual market at the time was minuscule, and the existing players are beyond niche -- they were kits made for electrical engineers! The same argument can be made right now -- the existing players are quite niche, and there is no obvious mass-market for home media management.

Unlike Bill Gates, I don't seem to have the guts to quit what I'm doing to make it happen. But I do have the ability to think and write -- so that's what I'm doing now. I'm espousing a viewpoint that, innately, I do have the belief that home media management is a "big egg" that has yet to be cracked. And that once the right service is available, people will be attracted to this service like moths to a flame. Once consumers realize that all of their precious photos, videos, and other media that they're collecting could be wiped off the face of the earth... they might just feel the need to invest in some media security. But instead of just plopping money down for a "media vault" -- the killer app is to make this "vault" also a "hub" that creates new ways to access all of that media you are buying, creating and storing. When targeting consumers, a little fear + a little access + a little cool = a new market.

-CL-> Your right, Microsoft could do all this and market the hell out of it and they might sell a few of them. Your forgetting that they are highly dependent on OEMs getting this stuff right because they only do the software side of things. <-CL-

I beg to differ! If you re-read my little pitch, you'll see that I have the OEMs squarely in the middle of the ecosystem. I agree that Microsoft is no Apple, and doesn't have the baseline brand to solo-market a service like this. They just don't. ZUNE is a great example of this problem, and XBox is an outlier because XBox is its own brand. Nobody cares if it's Microsoft or not (except when getting the red ring of death).

-CL->Forgetting that, why pass up developing all of their connected entertainment for the 200 millions people with Vista? So far the only point you have given is that they could market it as a single device. Microsoft has spent over $200 million marketing Windows Vista, if they really had an interest in doing this you would think they would do it and market it as a part of that. <-CL-

I have a simple, marketing-based answer to this very logical question: People don't buy Vista for connected entertainment. Most buy Vista/Win7 because it makes their PC work (and, usually, not well enough). Whereas a "home media hub" is an entirely different type of purchase psychologically from a PC purchase. The bundling of WMC within an OS is an area where Microsoft (and many of its fans) is really missing the boat on consumer thinking. The bundling of fantastic features is part of a large user experience issue within the Microsoft ethos. It's a problem of super-smart people trying to demonstrate value and convenience. &nb

re: Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

Kevin — Tue, 26 May 2009 12:56:31 GMT

I think one thing everyone is missing is that you need a WIRED network for media center and windows home server to work together. How many homes have one? Not that many. Every extender needs to be wired.

If it could all work wirelessly, then it might be mass market. But that is not happening anytime soon.

re: Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

chrisl — Tue, 26 May 2009 04:58:36 GMT

Jon:

You have some excellent ideas, but yet again I ask if I can't do all of these amazing things with my Windows Vista or Windows 7 PC, why in the world would Microsoft spend the time to develop them just for a "Media Hub" that has such a small market. Your right, Microsoft could do all this and market the hell out of it and they might sell a few of them. Your forgetting that they are highly dependent on OEMs getting this stuff right because they only do the software side of things.

Forgetting that, why pass up developing all of their connected entertainment for the 200 millions people with Vista? So far the only point you have given is that they could market it as a single device. Microsoft has spent over $200 million marketing Windows Vista, if they really had an interest in doing this you would think they would do it and market it as a part of that.

Your ideas are great, but very dependent on Microsoft getting things right and throwing millions of dollars at it. Knowing that Media Center has failed to capture this market over the past 6 years, would you give eHome the budget to do such a thing? I wouldn't. And considering their usage data, customers are not interested in what you are pushing. I'm interested, but the market isn't. That's not my opinion, that's the public data that is out there from Media Center users and test groups.

Your ideas are fantastic, but it is just not going to happen.

re: Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

Jon Deutsch — Tue, 26 May 2009 01:16:01 GMT

[con't from above]

Media Hub will be everything WHS and WMC are, but it will be positioned as a simplified, streamlined media storage and streaming service. That's right -- it should be marketed as a service. Not hardware; not software. The primary GUI will be the web interface that exists today with WHS, which resembles using webmail (service) more than an operating system (software & hardware). Being headless is key to making it seem like a service vs. buying 'another PC.'

I'm curious as to your collective thoughts on this further deep-dive of Ben's vision.

Jon Deutsch

jon@capitalddesign.com

re: Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

Jon Deutsch — Tue, 26 May 2009 01:03:41 GMT

Now, back to WHM + WMC = New Market Opportunity:

I strongly believe that design changes can affect adoption behavior and perceptions. The very notion of a web-based, headless device that anyone can just "plug in" to the way instantly makes it more of a CE device than a computing device. That's a large step in the right direction.

Then, if this new WHS could ship with an internal CC tuner or two (and allow more to 'slide in' like the HD's do) or easily plug-in to the USB port, then we're talking a CE-style replacement for the $15/month Cable HD box, not to mention all the great back-up features that a cable box can't and won't do.

Add to the fact that WHS will be backing up all of your groovy home-made content (within itself and to the cloud), now you're talking about marketing a CE device that not only gives you whole-home media, but also is a safety net/insurance policy for your media files. A real two-fer.

Add to the fact that WHS already support Mac's, and iTunes can be streamed through WMC... now we're talking about Microsoft being a complementary/host for the popular Apple media ecosystem.

But, before you go and tell me how I don't "get" the average consumer, and that I'm too wonky/tech-y to really understand consumer behaviors... hear out this positioning for WHS meets WMC:

1. A WMC-enabled WHS unit becomes HP's/Dell's/Sony's "Media Hub"

The consumer learns about Media Hub's amazing abilities, including:

> Store-and-stream all of your media, anywhere you are

> Replace costly cable equipment

> Ensure all of your precious moments and memories are secure and always available, instantly.

> Bring your photos, videos, and music to life in ways you never thought possible.

2. Consumer gets jazzed about this cool media hub that just takes 2 easy steps to set-up:

Step 1: plug it into the wall and network

Step 2: Go to its website to give it a name, and let it scan all of your content.

Step 3: There is no step 3! (yes, stolen from Apple's iMac campaign)

3. Consumer gets access to this content on their laptops, and is guided by in-line promotions that there are these little boxes called "Streamcatchers" (i.e. extenders) will allow them to see this content in all its richness on their TVs as well.

4. Consumer buys one or more Streamcatchers @$99/ea, or uses their existing Xbox360 when applicable.

Preferably, vendors bundle their Media Hubs and a couple of Streamcatchers so that consumers can get up and running with one purchase; maximizing convenience by reducing confusion through multiple purchases.

Why "Media Hub?" Non-enthusiast consumers won't buy a "server" for their homes (and "extenders" describes the process, not the activity -- and "extender" just isn't cool sounding). Consumers also don't really pine for whole-home media. Heck, most consumers won't even backup their media. But if Sony/HP/Dell sold a web-based Media Hub that "hosted, secured, synced and streamed" their content through their homes and mobile devices effortlessly, I think there's a market for a "service" like this that has yet to be tapped. A service like this would provide real value that is currently missing in the market. "Media Hub sits between your iPod and your Cable provider... ensuring everything in between is stored, safe, sync-able and stream-able."

WHS does a lot of things some people want and a lot of people need, but its positioned for people like us - power users.

WMC does a lot of things some people want, but it's also positioned for people like us - power users.

Media Hub will

re: Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

Jon Deutsch — Tue, 26 May 2009 00:51:37 GMT

Hi Chris,

Like most people who "get" what WMC is today (connected entertainment for the home), I also gravitate toward Ben's "vision" for WHS as home media center (HMC).

Yes, we know that MSFT's latest "TV on your PC" approach to WMC is the current marketing flavor, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it. We'd rather create a gravity around WMC as whole-home entertainment through viral social media buzz than simply accept the notion that MSFT is "giving up" on this strategy.

It's obvious that MSFT will not shift direction based on a few blog posts, but that doesn't mean that feedback from the field is patently ignored either. A good idea is a good idea. And, you have to admit that even you are getting some mixed messages.

If "TV on your PC" were the exclusive direction, then there's no reason why you should have been "assured" that there will be an extender strategy moving forward. Why would there be if it's all about TV on my PC?

And, why would we be getting NetFlix on WMC when I can see that same NetFlix content on netflix.com, since I'm already on my PC?

I -- like you and many others -- believe "TV on your PC" is fairly ridiculous -- esp. if it's CableTV. In fact, I can see WMP being more of a media/content portal than WMC for the PC. Isn't that where WMP is heading anyway? I just don't get the whole WMC experience being optimal for mouse & key.

It just doesn't add up to me. MSFT is playing both sides of this, and the marketing folks have adopted a single new tagline that seems to describe only 1/2 the story. Chris -- I think you might be giving too much credence to a "positioning decision" vs. a "technology direction." Consider this as a way to temper your cynicism.

Jon Deutsch

jon@capitalddesign.com

re: Does Home Server & Media Center Mean a Connected Future?

Martyus — Mon, 25 May 2009 22:02:54 GMT

I generally agree with Chris regarding WHS + Media Center. I have a WHS and it would be interesting to be able to put CableCard tuners in it (assuming one wouldn't have to buy "yet another WHS box" aka an OEM only box, to get the integrated bits).

I have an HTPC box running Vista Home Premium (Media Center) connected to an HDTV with MC extenders (Linksys 2100/2200) connected to other TVs in the house.

However, I think an integrated solution would be somewhat limited/ more complicated for an average consumer than if Microsoft spent those same resources to just get Media Center to work properly as a part of Vista (i.e. plug-n-play consumer level CableCard/satellite tuners).

First of all, a WHS+MC solution would _absolutely_ require MC extenders. Ideally, with an extender SKU which provides a Blu-ray drive. Unfortunately, Microsoft MC extender partners are jumping ship, so it is not clear where this is going.

Without extenders, a WHS+MC box would have to sit in the living room next to the TV (not the best place for a server). It would also require HD graphics/audio (capable of Blu-ray) with HDMI output to be able to connect directly to a TV. Most WHS boxes today don't have HD graphics/audio.

Also, a WHS+MC box would require an optical (DVD/Blu-ray) drive with form factor that makes it easy to "touch" the box to access the optical drive. Most WHS boxes today don't have optical drives and are more tower oriented not HTPC oriented.

Without extenders, a WHS+MC box would essentially have to be an HTPC, in function and form, and since WHS is based on a server OS, not a desktop OS, I have to wonder how easy it would be for Microsoft to add all the necessary HD components beyond the Media Center bits.