re: More on Fiji/Media Center TV Pack

David Leslie — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:19:09 GMT

I've been in both ends of the public beta slate having ran one and been a tester on several. So I can say that leaks by testers suck. Some people strap on their 'the community needs to know!' cap as they leak but it is really unproductive and disrespectful at best and at worse I've seen people sued over NDA violations.

It also doesn't help when you have folks in the press taking pot shots at the whole process on top of all of this.

That said as someone who just got a new HP 4 days before the code was released to the OEMs, I'm bent that I might not be able to get this update. There is just no good way of spinning this.

As for the Apple comments, two things to remember:

1. With the exception of Safari, Apple doesn't do betas with their community.

2. Apple due to the fact they don't have OEM partners yanks all older versions of the code out and/or shafts those who buy it before the new stuff is stocked (think iPhone first gen)

re: More on Fiji/Media Center TV Pack

Vince — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:30:29 GMT

Chris, this may be a stupid question, but what is Microsoft trying to achieve with all these secrets, NDA's, and not commenting.

I agree with one of the other posters who say the only people hurt with this stuff is the dedicated users.

I have sold my XBoxes, and dropped Vista in my Switch back to MythTV. I think MS could really learn from their method of doing releases. Release a stable version for the masses, and support the enthusiast with CVS Releases. I would never install the CVS Version on my main TV (AKA My Wife’s TV) but I love being able to install it on my office computer to see what is in the works. The enthusiast can see what is happening, and if the CVS version fries your data, well that’s why it’s a development release, isn’t it!!!

When it became apparent that the HDPC-20 was dead until 2010 that was the nail in my Media Center coffin. I will certainly keep and eye on it going forward, but I fear the until DRM is dead Microsoft will never, never, never get it right.

I foresee Apple Coming in and completely pulling the rug from MS’s feet before this is all over.

re: More on Fiji/Media Center TV Pack

digitalfreak — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 20:57:56 GMT

It's like I've said many times before - Microsoft doesn't give a rat's backside about the end user. It's all about the OEMs and what they want.

re: More on Fiji/Media Center TV Pack

Mike — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:07:53 GMT

People out there are excited by all the stories that MSoft used to tout about integrating the full multimedia experience into the home. If Vista MCE got even a fraction of the features that have been clamored for (for years) in The Green Button, and Microsoft showed even a fraction of the enegry that forum members are putting into building/modifying their home systems I'm sure we'd now have a kick-ass MCE. Instead it's rather telling that the main reason the severely delayed Fiji upgrade is in the news is because of the Fiji government, and not because of the product or its supposed features.

I respect you for adhering to the MSoft NDAs, but the only news this article provided was (the inevitable) product rebranding.

re: More on Fiji/Media Center TV Pack

Thu, 24 Jul 2008 00:28:00 GMT

If no major update is coming this year, then GAME OVER Media Centre.

I've been loyal for too long now...

re: More on Fiji/Media Center TV Pack

Tek — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:44:37 GMT

Actually, you're absolutely right. Their childish behavior IS nonsense. I think everyone is frustrated, and with no official conduit to vent their frustrations, folks get bitter at those individuals who they think have some influence/insight into the decisions made.

I know everyone is under NDA's at the moment, but if MS were just to shed some light on how/why the decision was made to exclude all current installations of VMC, perhaps things would be a little calmer? We may not like the decision, but knowing what the decision exactly IS would help in moving past it.

re: More on Fiji/Media Center TV Pack

chrisl — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 01:41:24 GMT

Clearly you didn't read what I wrote. There is no reason people can't be upset or have a bad attitude. What they can't do is attack each other. The latter is exactly what was going on.

What is really nonsense is everyone telling me that these peoples childish behavior is nonsense.

re: More on Fiji/Media Center TV Pack

Tek — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 22:06:55 GMT

Honestly, I'm flat out puzzled that MS is treating the dedicated VMC users this way. Users who, like myself, have spent serious $$$ to stay with MS all this time. OEM only release?? Seriously?!? I've read the posts on TGB and refrained from commenting. However, to say that you're surprised at the reaction from the community of dedicated followers who've just been slapped in the face for their loyalty is NONSENSE.

Of course the community is going to have a collective "bad attitude" when Microsoft presents a valuable/highly desirable software UPDATE and then sticks a $2000+ price tag on it!!

re: More on Fiji/Media Center TV Pack

David — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 18:21:58 GMT

As a hard core MCE and VMC user/fan, and an ex-Microsofty, I can clearly say that I told the MC team (before I left) that they are REALLY screwing up Fiji. I have no comments on the poor behaviors of beta-testers, if you are given something to try and test - act responsibly with it - period. However, Microsoft has really screwed the pooch on this one. No matter what is finally released they have basically abandoned MCE:

1) XP SP3 horks a clean MCE install - no concern or thought about MCE - unacceptable!

2) Fiji has been two years in the making and we will get basically nothing - you can thank a few people in Microsoft for that. MCE again is not really a concern, Vista and Windows 7 is all they care about - Robbie should have stepped up on this one and has not - which is a shame!

3) The MC team is crazy passionate and dedicated about their product. Their hands are tied by people higher up in the chain and they are NOT to blame. I place the lack of care for MCE and VMC on the lap of a few VP and that is the real shame. I of course understand that a few million MCE users happiness is worth less than the Windows brand and how they deploy the human resources around it. What I have issue with is how they have mis-managed the consumer relationship. Microsoft has the rare chance to KILL their competitors in the Living Room PC space - and their mis-management around ignoring this space - will be their undoing - which will be a real shame!

re: More on Fiji/Media Center TV Pack

Alan — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 08:26:07 GMT

Would Microsoft just have bought TGB if they intend to shaft the community?

re: More on Fiji/Media Center TV Pack

Hellman109 — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 00:47:49 GMT

Chris - Microsoft said that enthusiasts wouldnt be left out of the loop when it comes to media centre, yet it looked loud and clear like we had been.

I even called MS to get the update, and I was told to contact my OEM, and that they didnt have anything to give me.

Also, by the time it hit TGB, the TV pack had been out for a day, according to the KBs.

Add together that we hadnt been told of its apparent release, and that we couldnt get it, and thats a great way to annoy a market that doesnt have a whole lot of love at the moment.

Posting public KBs isnt violating NDAs, if they were supposed to be secret keep it in the beta areas where you need to be a member.

re: More on Fiji/Media Center TV Pack

mike — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 13:50:02 GMT

It is a bit funny that microsoft can go to E3 and announce the New Xbox Experience, with it's new GUI and functionalities, and anything else platform related that won't be coming out until Fall, and yet not give out any info on VMC updates that may or may not be happening.

re: More on Fiji/Media Center TV Pack

Magnus — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 13:09:37 GMT

No matter if the fears are justified or not, the fact is that it has stirred up a lot of anger and frustration among their customers and enthusiasts and Microsoft needs to come out and do some damage control before it's too late

re: More on Fiji/Media Center TV Pack

vinylfreak4 — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 05:53:10 GMT

I dont see much more than rollup fixes and minor improvements for Media Center in Fiji.

I feel most of the significant change will come when we are all willing to pony up the Cash for a new version of Windows.

Just my 2 cents.:)

re: More on Fiji/Media Center TV Pack

Jack — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 23:14:33 GMT

Why are updates to Media Center such a big secret anyway?

Why can't Microsoft inform the users and the market about their work with Media Center?

Just list the major new features they are working on.

Users are abandoning Media Center every day because poor support of old standards (DVB-T/S/C) and no word about support for current standards (H.264).

Media Center used to be a first class pioneer product, but Microsoft seems to have stopped caring just like with Internet Explorer 6. When they wake up it will be too late. The beginning of the end of being number one will be hard to stop.

Most products from Microsoft have open betas and we (developers and users) get tons of information a long time before RTM.

re: More on Fiji/Media Center TV Pack

CoupleOfPoints — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:02:26 GMT

LOL :) I have been involved in many beta tests (some with NDA), and I have no problem with people respecting the terms of an NDA, in fact I would expect no less!

My problem is with those that feel they need to blog about the fact they are participating in a NDA beta test, then write that they "know something that those outside the beta test don't know, but can't tell anyone because of the NDA".

Ok, absolutely respect the terms of the NDA, and just don't say anything from the beginning. If someone asks, tell them you don't know anything. Just don't "brag" that you know something, but can't tell anyone because of an NDA.

re: More on Fiji/Media Center TV Pack

chrisl — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:39:03 GMT

Somebody must have called in the wambulance. =) Sorry if people respecting their NDAs has limited your knowledge on the subject, but that's life.

re: More on Fiji/Media Center TV Pack

CoupleOfPoints — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:31:28 GMT

"...I wouldn’t be surprised if Microsoft cut out a public beta until everything is finalized for the next release."

Hmm... Would that really be so bad? A more focused beta test? Testers that are solely interested in testing all the code paths in the product (with no other agendas)? If nothing else, it would put an end to, or at least limit, all the endless speculation, and long list of beta test bloggers who write that they "know all the answers, but can't say what they are...blah... blah...", which just adds to the frustration of those on the "outside".

re: More on Fiji/Media Center TV Pack

chrisl — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:40:51 GMT

Martin: Hard to bring much new news when there isn't much going on with the platform. :( Microsoft has kind of bottomed out on stuff we are interested in. No DVD streaming, no Blu-ray, seeming no good new release, etc.

I'd love to bring everyone new stuff, but I don't make any of it come alive.

re: More on Fiji/Media Center TV Pack

Aaron — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:32:04 GMT

As someone who has been with MCE from the start and spent a fortune on it over the years, I'm pretty much ready to give it up. It's been almost 2 years since Vista's release and we've seen nothing. If Fiji is what people say it is then it looks like it'll be a longer wait for anything worth talking about.

This OEM-only nonsense is a another slap in the face. You know, like the V1 extenders and the "possible exchange program" that was announced and then promptly dropped. Or like CableCARD. I'm just tired of it all.