Has Media Center Been a “Miss” for Microsoft?

re: Has Media Center Been a “Miss” for Microsoft?

Graham — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 09:47:00 GMT

I have tried the Windows Home Server, Media Center PC (i.e. a dual core desktop with loads of hard drive and a TV tuner) and a Media Center Extender (Linksys DME2200) connected by ethernet cable. The wife loves the uncluttered shelf under the TV and what it does, it does very well. Sometimes I even regard it as brilliant. What it will not do, however, makes it an unsatisfactory, inefficient and expensive combination.

The new kid on the block in the UK is high definition FreeSat from the main broadcasters (BBC, ITV etc) Will MC support it ? No! Are there plans to support it? Panasonic have already announced a FreeSat HD TV, but at present I am not aware of a VMC compatible TV tuner card let alone an upgrade to MC. As for WHS, the box sits there switched on all day doing nothing except for a brief backup of the other computers. The whole lot has what euphemistic estate agents describe as "great potential" which translates into "needs a lot of work" to meet the needs of discerning consumers.

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re: Has Media Center Been a “Miss” for Microsoft?

David — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 06:57:32 GMT

Chris,

I'm involved in the "custom installation" A/V business. In my business we are installing everything on the face of the earth from high priced Kaleidescape systems to Apple TV and Vudu systems. But you know what we never install? Amd what no customer to this day has ever asked for? A Media Center. I don't know if the average consumer even knows what Media Center is. This is after MS has spent countless years trying to figure out how to make PC's more than just "PC's", and even included it for free in Vista.

The correct answer is that Media Center has been a miss, a MISERABLE miss.

re: Has Media Center Been a “Miss” for Microsoft?

Keith Hill — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 16:45:34 GMT

I agree with JohnCz. What is so frustrating is that Microsoft has most (all?) of the pieces to put together an comprehensive system: XBox/XBox-Live, Zune, Windows Home Server and MCE. The problem is that it seems that none of these groups work together. At least their products would indicate that. I can't tell you how disappointed I was in my gen 1 Zune that couldn't transcode my MCE recorded TV content.

An XBOX like consumer electronics appliance is the way I think "most" non-techy folks would prefer to get Media Center. Call it the VBOX. :-) Of course, it would have to be a lot quieter than the XBOX and you would probably need to figure out a way to subsidize the hardware to keep it inexpensive. Say it required a two year $100/yr subscription to X/VBox-Live.

A combined Windows Home Server/Media Center Server would also appeal to a good number of folks - like myself. BTW these dedicated form factors should interoperate with other Vista MCE PCs in the house. Currently I love to watch ripped DVDs off my WHS wirelessly on my Vista laptop. It is just a shame that I had to jump through hoops to get that all setup. Non-techy users would have no hope of making that work.

Microsoft needs to be thinking outside their normal box (PC software). XBox seems to have made the transition. Zune is working on it. Obviously Apple has shown their hand with AppleTV so you have an idea of where they're going.

What's up with the diminishing frequency of MCE updates? I thought Fiji was supposed to be in Vista SP1. This gives me the feeling I got when we didn't see an IE6 replacement for such a long time - ie the product team was either disbanded or dramatically shrunk.

I really do love the MCE experience though. Sorry if the above seems harsh. It's just so frustrating seeing Microsoft let another lead slip away. Apple is on a roll especially in digital media and I'm just not seeing Microsoft mount an good response to their challenge. A friend told me how he answered his manager on why they should develop on Windows instead of Unix when Unix was clearly more prevalent in this particular industry. This was the early '90s. His response was that it wasn't that important who was currently in front but who had the most momentum which was clearly Windows at the time. Unfortunately, I would say the same about Apple vis-a-vie MCE. Apple's got the momentum.

re: Has Media Center Been a “Miss” for Microsoft?

Media Center (ex)Fan — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 03:40:08 GMT

Has it been a miss? There are times when I wonder if they are even trying to hit a mark (so they can't miss).

As soon as "Fiji" (or news of it) hits the public, I think this question will be answered.

re: Has Media Center Been a “Miss” for Microsoft?

Sion Buckler — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:05:39 GMT

I dont think this article is correct. It is going to go mainstream, it's just a slow grower. Hopefully we are helping

If you visit our websites you will see that all the complexity of this system is handled by our company.

Media Receive install these systems like SKY Boxes already, quick, proffesional installation & tonnes of supporting services.

Please visit www.media-receive.co.uk to find out more

re: Has Media Center Been a “Miss” for Microsoft?

Dave — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:11:53 GMT

The simple fact is that Media PCs, even with the easy MCE interface, just aren't consumer products and won't be until they reach the level of white goods. A media box has to be simple, quiet, not crash and be reliable in it's recording (not just accidentally miss scheduled recordings). It still doesn't cope well with simple things like not recording duplicates repeated on different channels for example (and yes, I realise you can limit it to a single channel, but then you lose flexibility). My old Tivo (series 1 UK) was more reliable.

re: Has Media Center Been a “Miss” for Microsoft?

Charlie Owen — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:57:54 GMT

Actually, I believe TVTonic just announced they would have Olympics coverage within Media Center -- and their experience is written in MCML rather than Silverlight.

I'm fairly sure I explained the hiatus on my blog. I've begun thinking about returning back -- your post here warns me I should again be wary -- so much crap to wade through to get to the good stuff. I'll post over there tonight and see if people want me to write again, or just sit down and shut up.

Why do the people who have such vitriol to spew always do so anonymously? Because they lack the decorum and moral fiber to stand up and be held accountable for what they write. Well, at least you chose an appropriate synonym.

I've been forwarding lots of stuff to the various teams at Microsoft who are working on these issues. The whitepaper was put on hold for a very good reason -- it should only take you one guess to figure out what might have been more important given my company and product group.

The individual engagement thing has been going pretty good. I've had the good pleasure of working with three people out in the community on a very real and deep level with Windows Media Center. The lessons learned have been extremely valuable for our team -- although it will be a while before you see the results.

I'm going to ask my friend Ed Bott to drop by and give you a good 'Troll Zing' -- he is much better at those than myself. ;)

re: Has Media Center Been a “Miss” for Microsoft?

JohnCz — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:54:38 GMT

lol Wuss, is everything gloom and doom. pls.

re: Has Media Center Been a “Miss” for Microsoft?

Wuss — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:05:50 GMT

MISS. HUGE HUGE HUGE MISS.

wake up, people, especially you Charlie Owen. Microsoft had a decent lead, but they've lost digital media. Media Center, Zune, Windows Media Player, Windows Mobile = Failure. Failure. Failure. Failure. Not one of these digital media initiatives is going well. Even XBox looks shaky (I bet in the end it finishes third this generation) and certainly is still billions underwater in terms of profit.

Will the Olympics streaming demoed at Mix be available on Media Center? NO. (requires Silverlight)

Will Hulu be available on Media Center? Given that Comedy Central, VH1, and Nick all just discontinued their services that seems pretty doubtful.

Charlie what happened to your blog? Not too long ago you were promising a white paper about mapping scenarios and blah blah blah blah. Then, nothing posted for months and months. How is that "individual engagement" with the community going? Like most of Microsoft, you're full of hot air, empty promises, and lacking entirely with results. And then to come on this blog and spin up 100M as the Media Center number.. it's such a complete insult to the intelligence of everyone else here. You are the perfect blend of Microsoft arrogance and Microsoft ignorance. Don't lecture the rest of us on software development. You should shut the f up.

Signed,

Someone who was stupid enough to build a service for Media Center (don't do it people).

re: Has Media Center Been a “Miss” for Microsoft?

Jesper Lönnqvist — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:06:49 GMT

I think that Media Center has the potential to be a great product. Everyone that I've introduced it to loves it.

But it lacks some features for non US users that I think prevents the success.

In Sweden we lack support for subtitles, encrypted (pay tv) channels, poor EPG coverage.

re: Has Media Center Been a “Miss” for Microsoft?

andy vt — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:04:48 GMT

Charlie, I understand that waiting (and learning how to wait) is part of almost any [worthwhile] experience. For me the frustration is that we never seem to get past the waiting...

When it comes to delivering features in a software product (my experience could be different, I've never worked for a sw company), transparency is the most important thing. That way at least you know what you're waiting for and approximately how long. Without transparency it's too easy to say "bulls eye" when you miss the target.

re: Has Media Center Been a “Miss” for Microsoft?

EZRyder — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:20:15 GMT

Taking up Ross's point about Sony, the breaking news is that their Movie download service will come out in the US this summer, with Europe / Japan later. It would also appear that the content will be transferable across their ecosystem.

So to recap, in Europe you will be able to watch TV and record on the HDD. They will have a multiplatform download content. They have a very powerful games system. They have Blu-Ray. Seems pretty connected, compared to Microsoft.

re: Has Media Center Been a “Miss” for Microsoft?

Charlie Owen — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:35:10 GMT

andy vt: "I think that many of the "passionate" users of MC are also frustrated with the "just wait" answer we keep getting from eHome."

I'll let you in on a secret: Everything in life involves a 'just wait' at some point.

You develop software, right? Do you deliver 100% of all features to all people immediately? No. Some must wait -- sometimes indefinitely due to market conditions, viability, profitability, etc.

re: Has Media Center Been a “Miss” for Microsoft?

andy vt — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 00:35:43 GMT

Charlie, I think that many of the "passionate" users of MC are also frustrated with the "just wait" answer we keep getting from eHome; I know I am. When I see what other products in the space can do, I have to wonder if promise is enough to maintain the passion.

Looking back to when I started using MC, I remember it being an easy choice to pick the "green button" over the rest. Right now, for me slick UI and price are the main draws. If I had to make the choice again; contrasting that against heterogeneous guide/tuner and HD-PVR type device support (to name two features I want) I don't know that price and form would take it.

Maybe we should be asking if MC is more of a hit now then it was in '05.

re: Has Media Center Been a “Miss” for Microsoft?

Ross — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 23:06:31 GMT

I like JohnCz’s breakdown, and love the idea of having Xbox Live downloads available in Media Center.

Sony’s PlayTV on the PS3 and PSP comes out in Europe sometime this Fall, and will be an interesting offering. No PC required, and it’s simple. Buy a PlayTV box and plug it in – that’s it. Assuming it works well – no small feat :) - I could see it being really successful. It’s easy to understand, it’s easy to afford (assuming the PlayTV is ~$150), and it’s easy to justify the cost at each stage (Blu-ray player with the PS3, DVR with the PlayTV).

Apple’s on a course to start using the AppleTV and iPod/iPhone together. But without any cable/satellite integration they’re second string.

If MS can’t capitalise on all the potential of Zune + Xbox + WHS + MC, Sony or Apple will sweep in with a nicer package and Media Center really will become a flop (a mainstream one at least).

Time to reposition Media Center in a simpler, more consumer-friendly package. Make it easier to understand, and easier to afford.

re: Has Media Center Been a “Miss” for Microsoft?

Charlie Owen — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:33:49 GMT

Chris: "Microsoft really needs to stop going by the numbers."

Would you do that for your personal finances? :-) As I said earlier, it's not the only way you can quantify success but it *is* one of the major ways we evaluate success -- it's really the only piece which counts in a Profit & Loss (P&L) statement when you are in the business of selling anything.

Mark, neither Paint nor Calculator contribute to defining a specific SKU of Windows. They are a part of the overall value proposition of Windows, so their success is measured in part by the success of Windows.

Chris: "Consumer awareness would most likely pay into the equation [to determine success], of course Media Center is pretty low on the marketing side of things."

Totally agree -- this is the problem of defining success strictly by the numbers -- the marketing folks don't see the need to invest. Arguably, broad general awareness of Windows Media Center is one of our biggest hurdles.

M: "Please don’t sit there and tell me, “I think we’re doing a good job, look at how many units we’ve distributed”, when a good portion of the actual user/enthusiast community is disappointed at the pace in which Microsoft has delivered on this product."

Let's not confuse success in the context of the original post (was the author correct in saying Media Center PCs have been a miss for Microsoft) with whether or not the product team believes the product has obtained perfection. I'm saying the author doesn't understand what Microsoft's own success metrics looks like for Media Center and so makes the 'hit' or 'miss' call in a vacuum. As far as we (the Media Center team) are concerned is been very successful -- which is why we get to keep making it better with each release.

Personally, I measure our success by the feedback I see here and elsewhere. Our users are 'super passionate' about what they want to see the product do and how it evolves over time. So far I've seen that community of users continue to grow -- if I start to see it shrink then I know we are less successful compared to the past and we need to make changes.

In a nutshell, if you have a constructive comment / criticism in this thread (or in any other forum) then we've been successful because you are at least trying to use the product. If you didn't care you wouldn't take the time to let your thoughts be known.

Keep the thoughts coming...

re: Has Media Center Been a “Miss” for Microsoft?

Mark — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:39:05 GMT

I had another thought overnight on the "we are so sucessfull cause we have shipped 100million+" units quote. I guess by that metric MSPaint must be an awesome bit of software. It has sold loads of copies, and the calulator application too...

re: Has Media Center Been a “Miss” for Microsoft?

Brent — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:56:46 GMT

In response to Aaron Rodriguez's comment "If it wasnt for sage having such a horrible interface (even after themes) I likely would be using it right now."

I really think people who haven't checked out the SageMC (more than a theme - its a replacement interface) would be surprised to see how nice it is. SageTV is seeing many VMC and XP MCE defectors coming over for the SageTV HD Extender and really happy with the SageMC Interface. Check it out here: http://tinyurl.com/5ds5va

People tend to write off SageTV before they realize how much you can make the interface your own...