Why I’m I Still Posting About Xbox 360 With Blu-ray?

re: Why I’m I Still Posting About Xbox 360 With Blu-ray?

Al — Sat, 10 May 2008 01:07:58 GMT

You can buy MS's way of selling the fact that the 360 doesn't have blu-ray ("It's the games"), but that is just spin until they get the BR version out. There is a reason they had the HD-DVD drive.

Market forces require that the 360 have BR... yes it's still first and foremost a game console, but as the games per platform reach parity the 360 will loose sales without the additional future-focused functionality of a blu-ray drive.

I'm well aware of the fact that the MC extender functionality targets a very small market, but the HD downloads and Blu-ray do hit a large market. The two together make it a viable competitor to the PS3 even if games do reach parity.

The VMC extender functionality is just icing on the cake for the few folks who understand and use it.

re: Why I’m I Still Posting About Xbox 360 With Blu-ray?

chrisl — Thu, 08 May 2008 21:24:55 GMT

There is a huge difference in what would be good for our small Media Center group and what makes sense for Microsoft. Make no mistake, an Extender with Blu-ray for $300 would be amazing, but that has no impact on Microsoft and the Xbox 360.

The Xbox 360 is first and foremost a gaming console. Second it is an Extender. There is no reason for Microsoft to add Blu-ray to the Xbox 360 to make our small Media Center group happy.

This is an analysis of what makes sense for Microsoft, not what I think Microsoft should do for Media Center users.

And yes, advanced audio codecs, HDMI 1.3, etc really only target a specific set of higher end users....until you have regular users compare specs and see the PS3 come out on top everytime for less money. Just look at how many people take stupid standards and formats and base their purchasing decision off of that. 1080p is a prime example of this. How many products do people pass up because it says 1080i and not 1080p? It makes no difference that these people don't have a 1080p source going into the product, they don't have a 1080p display, they don't understand the real differences in 1080i->1080p, they don't have a display large enough to see the differences, yet the fact that product x doesn't support 1080p is the deciding factor in the purchase. This is a real concern, trust me.

As Media Center users, we do have to realize that we are a small majority in a growing market. Decisions with a multi-dollion dollar Xbox business do not revolve around us or features we request.

re: Why I’m I Still Posting About Xbox 360 With Blu-ray?

Al — Thu, 08 May 2008 21:15:28 GMT

I'm surprised by that comment Chris... considering you just completed a week of posting on media center stuff.

The combo of Blu-ray drive, media center extender and one of the only decent HD download options makes the 360 a much smarter choice IMHO.

...advanced audio codecs, HDMI 1.3, profile 2.0... there is a very limited and geeky set of folks who care about those small items as compared to the larger functionality available on the 360 platform.

re: Why I’m I Still Posting About Xbox 360 With Blu-ray?

chrisl — Thu, 08 May 2008 17:45:17 GMT

Of course, if you are only buying it for Blu-ray (or MCX), your chances of buying (miltiple) game titles are slim.

Once again the question seems to be should consoles focus on games or optical disc playback? The PS3 has a strange advantage, because it just happens to be the cheapest and best BD player on the market and has been since the start of things.

People are buying the PS3 because it is a good Blu-ray Player, and Sony invites this because of their IP in Blu-ray succeeding. Microsoft has no reason to want Blu-ray to succeed, in fact they have many more reasons for it to fail than they do succeed.

The Xbox 360, by design, would make a less featured Blu-ray Player (I noted this in several other posts). So another one of my points was even if Microsoft did Blu-ray on the Xbox 360, the chance of it matching the features on the PS3 Blu-ray has are very slim. Your talking no advanced audio codecs, no HDMI 1.3, maybe no Profile 2.0, etc. The PS3 is still going to line up to be the best purchased for 99% of the market comparing the Xbox 360 to the PS3.

There is just no competitive advantage gained here.

re: Why I’m I Still Posting About Xbox 360 With Blu-ray?

Mike — Thu, 08 May 2008 17:23:58 GMT

I am currently an owner of none of the latest gen consoles, but I am likely to buy a ps3 within the next 2 months. The only reason I am considering the PS3 over the Xbox 360 is purely Blu-ray. If the Xbox had Blu-ray I would likely buy that over the PS3, because it is a much better option as a media extender.

I think your analysis is fairly sound, I just wanted to point out that there are consumers (at least 1 - me) that have Blu-ray as a major deciding factor for their console. Given the fact that Microsoft and Sony don't make money off the hardware, but off the software licensing (games), I would think Microsoft would want to get their hardware in as many homes as possible. That being said, Microsoft has at least one living room that the Xbox 360 will not be in because of it's lack of Blu-ray. I would consider owning both consoles, but only in a few years after prices drop dramatically.

re: Why I’m I Still Posting About Xbox 360 With Blu-ray?

chrisl — Wed, 07 May 2008 17:30:53 GMT

I skipped the Xbox 360+Extender combo because it was kind of implied in the overall concept. I agree, I would love to have an Extender with Blu-ray, but at the same time I don't want a $500+ Extender.

Overall, the Extender+Xbox 360+Blu-ray group falls into a very small part of the market. Yes, it would be a very powerful combo but Microsoft isn't going to focus on this and most are not going to pay the high price for it (and again, Microsoft gets no real competitive advantage from it).

I do see Blu-ray Disc Players being the future of Extenders however.

msmvps.com/.../1246958.aspx

re: Why I’m I Still Posting About Xbox 360 With Blu-ray?

Phil — Wed, 07 May 2008 15:52:12 GMT

I want the 360 more for its extender capabilities which the PS3 does not have. You seemed to have totally skipped that feature. But until the 360 comes with an internal blu-ray player I'll be staying away. I don't want to have to add two components that don't stack well in an entertainment center and require two power connections to get blu-ray and MCEx functionality. Perhaps Dlink has something in development.

re: Why I’m I Still Posting About Xbox 360 With Blu-ray?

Dave Zatz — Mon, 05 May 2008 17:37:46 GMT

If MS offered a smaller, quieter Xbox 360 I'd buy it again and ebay my current model. An Xbox 360 with built-in Blu-ray drive, but same noise & heat doesn't move me. I'm not a fan of external accessories, so I don't think an external drive would move me either.

re: Why I’m I Still Posting About Xbox 360 With Blu-ray?

chrisl — Mon, 05 May 2008 16:13:22 GMT

Considering the Xbox 360 can decode H.264 from HD DVDs I think you would be incorrect to assume it can't do the same from an Blu-ray Disc. H.264 is by far the hardest to decode, they have VC-1 down as well as MPEG-2.

The differences are minimal from a codec standpoint, and basically involves BD having a higher possible peak bitrate. I don't think it is enough of a difference to bring the Xbox 360 to its knees however.

re: Why I’m I Still Posting About Xbox 360 With Blu-ray?

Mark — Mon, 05 May 2008 16:01:35 GMT

I think you're wrong in assuming that the Xbox 360 has the horsepower to render Blu-Ray. The graphics chips available when they designed the 360 cannot handle Blu-ray.

re: Why I’m I Still Posting About Xbox 360 With Blu-ray?

chrisl — Mon, 05 May 2008 13:00:57 GMT

No one really knows what the next Xbox will have. If it is optical based, you would assume it has to be. However, Sony has even made suggestions that optical based consoles are dieing and that there next (PS4) will not be optical based. No idea how true that will be, but....

re: Why I’m I Still Posting About Xbox 360 With Blu-ray?

Wayne — Mon, 05 May 2008 12:50:15 GMT

Why wouldn't future versions of the 360 have a BR drive? It seems pretty clear that BR is going to replace DVD, just as CD-ROM drives were replaced with DVD-ROM drives. The price for BR drives is now down to around $150 retail (for LG and LiteOn) and should keep falling. Therefore when MS comes out with the 360 Super-Duper Elite a year from now why not throw a BR drive in the unit?

Presumably the successor to the XBOX360 will have to have a BR drive, will it not?

re: Why I’m I Still Posting About Xbox 360 With Blu-ray?

chrisl — Mon, 05 May 2008 12:50:04 GMT

Yeah, but you got free movies on a format that will effectively die when your Xbox or HD DVD add-on does.

It's like having a small collection of movies on UMDs (PSPs media format) and feeling good about it, despite the fact you can't play the obsolete format on anything but that one device.

I'm not saying everyone has been alienated by the HD DVD add-on, but I think a large percentage has and that can be confirmed by online comments.

re: Why I’m I Still Posting About Xbox 360 With Blu-ray?

Warren — Mon, 05 May 2008 12:34:40 GMT

I think if their was more time then it would be a bigger chance, but as of right now the console is more than halfway through the average life span. It just doesn't make sense in that regard. Maybe in the next version though.

But you did say

"A larger percent of the 300,000 people who purchase the external HD DVD drive still have a bad taste in their mouth."

I'm not sure if I agree with that. Everybody I know who bought the hddvd drive did with the 11 free movie thing, which pretty much paid for itself. Now you can get hddvd movies for next to nothing too. Also the fact that both amazon and bestbuy gave $50 credits just made me even more happy. Everybody I know (5) who bought one doesn't have a bad taste in their mouth and are satisfied with the purchase.

re: Why I’m I Still Posting About Xbox 360 With Blu-ray?

Chriscic — Mon, 05 May 2008 03:32:22 GMT

The sad fact is the sites that keep reporting this "news" don't care about the truth. They just want a catchy headline to draw hits. Sad, but true.

re: Why I’m I Still Posting About Xbox 360 With Blu-ray?

Shawn Oster — Sun, 04 May 2008 23:56:19 GMT

As an American XBox owner Blu-Ray makes no sense and in fact I'd be a little pissed as I'd rather they bundle something like a quieter drive or wireless N adapter or larger HD or even a tuner card, pretty much anything other than a Blu-Ray drive. I could care less about Blu-Ray, and while HD-DVD was the better format I'm not that bummed about its loss because I wasn't that interested in it either.

I'm just not ready to repurchase my entire movie collection on yet another format or deal with players that require firmware updates. I'm more than happy to continue to purchase HD movies via the Marketplace or just watch DVDs while I wait for the future of non-DRM HD online streaming titles, even if it takes the next 5 years. I'm perfectly content to wait out this media phase for the next one, especially considering how little HD movies really give you over current DVD movies.

On the flip side I can see why the Euro consumer would care a lot more about this. Given how expensive consumer goods are over there the idea of a multi-purpose device like a game console + DVD player isn't just a neat marketing gimmick it's a serious purchasing decision.

Of course I still question the actual real need for Blu-Ray/HD-DVD as I also really question the people that *demand* a Blu-Ray drive with the 360, since the only reason you would need one is if you have a decent HD setup and if you have the dosh to afford that then you wouldn't even think of hoooking a lukewarm player like one bundled in a console up to your top-end HD setup.

re: Why I’m I Still Posting About Xbox 360 With Blu-ray?

chrisl — Sun, 04 May 2008 21:11:15 GMT

Even if they didn't loss money on a $150 external, there is no point of it. It doesn't bring any consumers to buy an Xbox 360. And as I noted in the post, that is just the price of the drive itself. Your talking about an external drive casing, logistical cost, software development costs, licensing costs, and more.

Internal is the closest that "could" make somewhat "sense" (using terms losely), but then you are talking about losing money or raising prices of the SKUs. If you bump the price of the Xbox 360 Premium by $50 (which doesn't even cover your $125 price for the drive itself), then you have a console that costs the same as the PS3 with half the hard drive. Add a hard drive upgrade (which is more needed than BD), your still in the red by far.

Add $50 to the Elite, your selling is for $500+. Your specs match up closer to the PS3 (better hard drive), but at a price higher than $500 you limit your market too much.

Consoles are loss leaders, but you have to make sure there is a point in losing that cash. To me, Blu-ray doesn't make the Xbox 360 compete anymore with the PS3 because the PS3 is still a better option from a consumer standpoint (just based on specs, features, and what is in the box).

BTW, I'm not taking into account the money they already loss on each Xbox 360 sold.

re: Why I’m I Still Posting About Xbox 360 With Blu-ray?

Tim Jansen — Sun, 04 May 2008 20:54:55 GMT

I don't think that MS would lose any money on an external Blu-ray Disc drive for $150. At least in Europe you can already buy an internal BD-ROM for about 80 EUR + taxes (approx $125). Prices will certainly go down in the next few months, so why should they need to sell it at a loss?