Fact or Fiction: Microsoft and Blu-ray

Xbox 360 Blu-ray Shot Down Again By Microsoft

Chris Lanier's Blog — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 23:04:57 GMT

You didn’t think Lite-On was really manufacturing Blu-ray Disc drives for the Xbox 360, did you? It doesn

re: Fact or Fiction: Microsoft and Blu-ray

Ja — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:58:53 GMT

microsoft could care less about blu ray at this time. sony cant be making money over microsoft at this point as they are losing money everytime they sell a console with a blu ray player that is worth close to $1000. Thats not to mention the problems with PS3 to begin with. i have an xbox and u cant play halo 3 on playstation. Id have a PS3 if i could but at the same time the average consumer doesnt own a 1080p television or blu ray discs. Blu ray will catch on in the future video game platforms...PS4 and sooner with the newer xbox108 or whatever but now its a small few that have blu ray movies and 1080p televisions. less the 5% i guarentee

re: Fact or Fiction: Microsoft and Blu-ray

Kevin — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 22:03:18 GMT

They still haven't fixed the 3 blinking red lights.

And you think they will do blue ray anytime soon?

Lets focus on the immediate problem, getting peoples consoles to work again.

re: Fact or Fiction: Microsoft and Blu-ray

James — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:51:45 GMT

I just don't buy the view that the 360 needs a BR drive to compete with the PS3. It would definitely be nice, but my Wii doesn't even play DVDs and it's pretty popular around my house. I think good games (exclusives) and a low (lower than today's) price would definitely keep the 360 in the market. This weekend I almost purchased a PS3 just for Blu-ray support (plus I love to try out new gadgets), but changed my mind when I saw a $130 Lite-on Blu-ray drive listed at the Egg. I think I'd rather just drop the drive in my existing HTPC and not add the additional console to my crowded setup. For those that don't have a HTPC, if MS comes out with good exclusives then they'll buy both (PS3 and 360).

re: Fact or Fiction: Microsoft and Blu-ray

Xander Mol — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:57:07 GMT

@Chrisl: Indeed turning it on and off is not possible via IR. ut to me this is not an issue as you will need to go to the player anyway to put the Bluray disc in or out. And the PS3 automatically turns on when you insert a disc.

But for the other controls the IR dongle I use (the Logic 3 IR control) together with my Harmony 885 (European version of the 880) works just fine (altough a bit sluggisch compared to the BT remote).

BTW: Even for the on/off per IR now a solution exists, but did not try it myself: check schmartz.com/product.sc

re: Fact or Fiction: Microsoft and Blu-ray

chrisl — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:35:12 GMT

Xander: Can you turn it on/off via IR? IIRC the USB ports are not active when the system is off, so you either need to turn it on manually at the unit or via the BT controller. If your doing it via IR, please let me know what you bought.

re: Fact or Fiction: Microsoft and Blu-ray

Xander Mol — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:39:15 GMT

@Chrisl: Yes, the PS3 has a Bluetooth remote control, but with an IR dongle it can be perfectly controlled by a Harmony. Do it every day.

And I agree with your reasoning while it will be very hard for MS to build a cost effective XBOX 360 with BR, so maybe indeed they won't.

I only think that if MS does not take losses on a XBOX360/BR combo that can compete with the PS3 on price, they will give the console market completely away until the XBOX 720/1080/whatever is introduced.

So the question is: how many losses is MS willing to take to block Sony game console domination?

BTW: I own an XBOX360, Wii, PS3 and two Windows Media center PCs (one HTPC, one normal desktop PC).

re: Fact or Fiction: Microsoft and Blu-ray

chrisl — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:53:43 GMT

In my opinion, it would be more beneficial for Microsoft to loss money on the Xbox 360 by just dropping the price, rather than adding Blu-ray. Drop all SKUs by $30-$60/each, loss money that way.

The sad thing is, consumers might demand Blu-ray just because it's a buzz word now. How many who bought the PS3 with the intent to game even have more than the one BD title that shipped with it? Consumer demand might be one thing, realizing that your customer base is wanting needless technology is anyone.

Give an an Xbox 360 Arcade for $220. Beat the Wii, beat the PS3 in price not in features the majority of gamers don't use.

re: Fact or Fiction: Microsoft and Blu-ray

Al — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:26:10 GMT

Yeah, I read the whole article until my eyes started to glaze over about half way thru... the tech stuff is all fine and dandy but in the end it does come down to market forces and what the public wants.

MS needs to make the 360 quieter, they need to add blu-ray and they need to improve the video playback quality.

If they don't they will continue to slide against the PS3.

re: Fact or Fiction: Microsoft and Blu-ray

chrisl — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:45:26 GMT

I don't follow about BD+. BD+ is only for Blu-ray Disc movies, it has nothing to do with games. It's a content protection system.

re: Fact or Fiction: Microsoft and Blu-ray

Bradley — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:32:27 GMT

I already know two people who bought PS3 instead of the XBOX360 and both were XBOX360 fans. Why? Blu-Ray.

If Microsoft does not include Blu-Ray in the future they will lose their market share. Game consoles and next will be licensing fees.

PS3 only disadvantage is developers. Will that change when they can implement BD+ features?

Game consoles is one area that Microsoft does not have the market cornered so they will have to adapt to the user needs.

re: Fact or Fiction: Microsoft and Blu-ray

Matt Ellis — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 23:19:31 GMT

Just as a point of interest, MS is adding a teeny, tiny bit of Blu-Ray support in Vista SP1. The SHGetStockIconInfo function allows you to retrieve known icons (such as folder, document, drive, CD, etc).

For SP1, it's being updated to also return Blu-ray Disc BD-ROM, Blu-ray Disc BD-R and Blu-ray Disc BD-RE icons.

See:

msdn2.microsoft.com/.../bb762205(VS.85).aspx

and

msdn2.microsoft.com/.../bb762542(VS.85).aspx

Cheers

Matt

re: Fact or Fiction: Microsoft and Blu-ray

James — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 19:08:49 GMT

I've used my 360 as an extender since launch. I love it. I even played games on it from time to time (although I'm mainly a PC gamer). I still agree with Chris. It just doesn't make sense with an aging system. They do have great games and XBL is great as well. These things do sell the system to people that are familiar with the system. The problem is that most people assume that the PS3 and 360 are equivelant gaming platforms and that's not really the case. MS should drop the price on the 360 as low as they possibly can. They should drop HD download costs as low as they can. This will keep their numbers up until they can get the next gen XBox out the door. Of course, at that point they will need to have BR if they want to be the digital hub.

re: Fact or Fiction: Microsoft and Blu-ray

FirstSalvo — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:16:24 GMT

Yes I agree with you on the costs. MS will lose money either way, either in adding a BR drive or leaving it alone and losing money when the 360 sales drop sharply this year. Maybe this will motivate them into putting some money into getting the next xbox out sooner. In all after thought, I feel that MS will probably not mess with a BR drive and will instead try to promote the benefits of digital downloads on the XBLMP. Like you I feel that the US is in no way ready to put their trust (and $) into digital downloads over physical media. The DRM ghosts are just too strong, to say nothing of the sad state of broadband in the US.

re: Fact or Fiction: Microsoft and Blu-ray

chrisl — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:02:09 GMT

I get your points, but my question is still what benefit does Blu-ray give Microsoft. Think about it, if you do external then your price for Xobx 360+external Blu-ray is going to be higher then the PS3 with included Blu-ray (unless Microsoft can somehow get sub-$100 BD drives, I doubt that but we will use it for an example).

Taking the average of the Xbox 360 SKUs ($360)+even an external $100 Blu-ray drive is still $460 which is more than the $400 40GB PS3. Again, why is the benefit to Microsoft if the price is the issue. Sure, it's great for existing Xbox 360 owners but if you are talking about losing marketshare then existing owners don't apply.

The only way the Xbox 360 is cheaper then the PS3 when you mix in a money losing $100 external Blu-ray drive is the $280 Arcade and even then it's just $20 cheaper and you lose the hard drive from the picture (not to mention the Arcade is marketed at the casual gamer, not the big media user).

So the only way to do Blu-ray at a price that beats the PS3 with Blu-ray is to do it internal for all SKUs at a huge loss per unit. Did I mention the Xbox 360 just became profitable a month or so ago?

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how it makes sense from Microsoft's perspective to loss all that cash. I think they will continue to push games in front, XNA will start to become bigger, digital downloads will get more studio support, and no Blu-ray drive will be offered.

Maybe I'm wrong, and if I am I'd gladly pick up an Xbox 360 w/ Blu-ray. While the PS3 is a great BD player, the lack of an IR remote option doesn't make it nice for my Harmony.

re: Fact or Fiction: Microsoft and Blu-ray

FirstSalvo — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:43:49 GMT

Your points are well founded Chris, but from a business perspective MS has to worry a little here now. The 360 has dominated the battle with the PS3 in sales the last 2 years due mainly to its price point (helped by the EXCLUSION of an HD drive), game library, digital downloads, and its superior online experience… however the next year or so (until the next xbox is released) MS will no longer have these edges because the PS3 has mostly caught up. It’s obvious that this will be the year of the PS3. The 360 is aging now and SO many people have been putting off a PS3 purchase until the price came down. Now it has, and now it has the winning HD format drive built in. You’d be hard pressed to convince a potential console buyer this year to purchase a 360 over a PS3. If MS doesn’t want their 360 sales to plummet this year then I would think that they would have to do SOMETHING to counter the PS3’s BR edge. MS wants to be the dominant console. They want to bury Sony. If they want their next-gen console dominance to last and carry that momentum through to the next xbox launch then I would think that would be motivation enough to offer something in the BR market. Maybe not.

re: Fact or Fiction: Microsoft and Blu-ray

andy vt — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:43:04 GMT

The technical argument is compelling, but businesses that let technical reasons be blocking issues for sound business sense don't do well.

The battle b/w the two consoles isn't so much about gaming as it is about being the digital hub; MS has a major deficiency in the console "war" when stacked against the PS3. From what I understand (and I'm not a gamer so forgive me if the facts are wrong, that the perception exists is still telling) they are roughly equivalent when it comes to gaming experience. The prices are close enough that anyone thinking about HD playback would be hard pressed to go for the 360, and that's what MS has to combat.

Unfortunately, while I would like MS to build native support for BR (and I think the lack of native HD-DVD support hurt it, and WMC, immensely) into WMC, I don't think there's as compelling a business driver for them to do it. Given the level of integration that is available with ArcSoft, OEM's don't have a reason to pressure MS to do anything for us.

re: Fact or Fiction: Microsoft and Blu-ray

SiMon — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:15:52 GMT

Great post Chris. Well thought out and presented.

Xbox/PS3 issues are of little interest to me as I don't own either format.

I do however use MCE every day and agree that integrated Blu-Ray support is a must.

re: Fact or Fiction: Microsoft and Blu-ray

Eric Atkins — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:53:55 GMT

The next XBOX 360 will be called XBOX1080. It's a play on '360' (which is 360 times 3, Microsoft's 3rd console offering). 1080 is also a play on 1080p, the resolution of tomorrow.

re: Fact or Fiction: Microsoft and Blu-ray

chrisl — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:43:41 GMT

That's true, and I don't think you will see OEMs try and tackle this first. The first step is hardware with Profile 2.0 support. Once they do that and have a solid platform, I'd love to see an OEM step up and license the Extender bit from Microsoft (remembering the hardware is basically ready for it with little work) and sell the software update for ~$50. Not only would I buy that Blu-ray player, but I'd also buy the ~$50 update to add Extender support to it.