Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

re: Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

Natasha — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:56:32 GMT

Im a little upset...

I liked the first zune, to be totally honest. It was basic, yes there were a few updated here and there, but it made sense.

I dont like the touch wheel, that is why I bought the Zune and not the iPod...

Though I do like some of the arty additions, you can now customize these new Zunes...

Like you can put art work on them...

I dont know I feel as a customer of the first Zune, a little jipped.

re: Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

chrisl — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:44:04 GMT

Paul: You say I'm too negative, but the point of your post shows my exact reason for being negative.

It would be a real victory for the Zune Marketplace to play nice with the Xbox Marketplace. It would also be a victory if Zune worked with Windows Media Player (there existing playback application). Same with PlaysForSure vs. Zune, and so on.

It is hard not to be negative when you look at all of Microsoft's products that don't work together. Apple, and the iPod on the other hand work hand and hand basically from day one.

re: Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

Paul — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:34:12 GMT

Chris,

Overall I think you are a little too negative (jaded?) regarding the Zune. I am an Xbox 360 owner who deliberately did not buy Zune 1 but waited for Zune 2. I am glad I waited. And one more thing, I know you are a Media Center fan, but the REAL victory for MS is if they could link the Zune Marketplace to the Xbox marketplace. Get a song/video/game trailer through Marketplace and have it work on both the 360 and the Zune. THAT is what would sell Zune's in my opinion. Your thoughts?

re: Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

Aaron — Fri, 05 Oct 2007 00:19:36 GMT

"Shawn: Can you give me any reason why the general public should pick the Zune over an iPod? I'm not talking about basic features of the Zune that the iPod doesn't why, instead why should people who only know the iPod consider Zune when they are both the same price? What does it really give me as an advantage."

I'm confused by this question. Are you asking why people should pick the Zune over the iPod, but without comparing the features??

Anyone performing a comparison between Zune 2 and iPod 80gig, would realize that the Zune has more features. Wireless Sync, FM radio, better and more responsive user interface.

Judging by what we know at the moment, the only thing the iPod has going for it is that it's 2mm thinner and has more accessories.

Does this mean the Zune 2 will outsell the iPod? Heck no, but it definitely has advantages.

re: Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

Markb — Thu, 04 Oct 2007 18:25:51 GMT

"According to Ars Technica, the new Zune won't sync with MCE2005, only Vista...bad move MS:"

You beat me to the punch on that one.

I do think it's nice in a world of planned obsolescence that MS is porting the changes and features back to Zune 1. I still think having a separate media player instead of just using WMP11 is retarded.

re: Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

John — Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:54:41 GMT

Shawn: Can you give me any reason why the general public should pick the Zune over an iPod? I'm not talking about basic features of the Zune that the iPod doesn't why, instead why should people who only know the iPod consider Zune when they are both the same price? What does it really give me as an advantage.

re: Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

opuntia — Thu, 04 Oct 2007 14:56:36 GMT

According to Ars Technica, the new Zune won't sync with MCE2005, only Vista...bad move MS:

arstechnica.com/.../20071003-an-in-depth-look-at-the-new-zune-lineup.html

re: Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

chrisl — Thu, 04 Oct 2007 12:51:36 GMT

Shawn: I think you need to take a sales/marketing class if you honestly believe some of what you wrote above.

"People focus on a store because it's flashy" - Umm yeah. Marketing 101? It is not always about who will use the feature, and when you are battling against a product that has sold over 100 million units, then you need to be flashy as hell to have a chance. Microsoft wants you to focus on what they hope is a flashy Zune. That is how you sell (or don't sell) products.

I never said the additions were not "good". In fact, I believe I said this is where the Zune should have been when it first launched.

Also, I don't believe I never said that the iPod was my ideal player. Rather, I've been saying for months that the Zune is no match for the iPod and offered suggestions about what Microsoft should do to have any chance to take on the iPod. And judging off Google News from yesterday, I'm far from the only one who thinks that.

I'm impressed with the wireless. ZunePad doesn't do much for me. Sharing music I would never use. Managing two databases is a compete turnoff. No 10-foot sync when PMCs had the feature is a turn-off. No WiFi marketplace is too.

BTW, I'm a repeat junkie. Three plays does nothing for me.

re: Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

opuntia — Thu, 04 Oct 2007 11:39:46 GMT

Regarding WMP11 or Zune; I'm with Chris, I've spent a lot of time in WMP11 making sure my music database plays nice with MCE2005 and I don't want to chance it with the zune software.

But my main point is that MS should of revamped WMP11, give it a new name, and have that be THE MS media player that works well with or without Zune. I hate to say it, kind of like iTunes. You can use itunes to manage you music AND for syncing your ipod.

Now MS has two different media players each with their own stores and DRM/lack of DRM requirements...how confusing!

re: Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

Shawn Oster — Thu, 04 Oct 2007 08:01:26 GMT

@Chris...

Curious, exactly how *do* you listen to music? What is a typical portable music device experience for you and why does an iPod suit your music needs better than a Zune? I'm not talking about what you'd like or what you want but how you used your iPod or Zune or Zen or Muvo or whatever device yesterday or last weekend or how it gets used on a daily basis.

So far I see how the Zune has failed your ideal but I don't quite see how it fails your reality nor which product you use that works better.

re: Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

Shawn Oster — Thu, 04 Oct 2007 07:56:36 GMT

I think the Zune updates are great as well as being a lot more practical. We must listen to music in completely different ways for you to be so against the Zune.

A WiFi Store may work nicely on a Touch, something with easy input, but with just a d-pad? Just entering WEP passwords would be a pain in the ***. People focus on a store because it's flashy but I doubt people will be falling all over themselves to buy songs. Just look at the reality of it, how often are you away from your computer when you feel the need to buy new music and also happen to be in a location with open wifi?

Automatic wireless syncing on the other hand is awesome considering I sync new podcasts and song ratings every day. This is a feature I'll actually use.

Syncing/transcoding of dvr-ms is great, I hate having to use a slew of third-party tools just to get South Park onto my Zune. New software, DRM-free tracks, a social site, new backend? All very cool, very good additions.

Could they do more? Sure, and I hope they do, but these are some really great new additions that make me excited about the Zune again.

I wonder what happened to the WMP team? I've actually always disliked WMP but I'm sure with some (OK, *a lot of*) work it could be brought up to snuff. My guess is that there is a legal issue here and that when you're attempting to build a tightly integrated vertical experience, from software to hardware to server, that you need as much control as possible to gain any momentum.

re: Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

mrphil — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 21:53:30 GMT

Microsoft, seriously, forget about this crap. Just let Apple have this one. You guys don't have to be in every single market there is with every possible product.

How about concentrating more on things like Media Center which are way better than anything Apple has come up with, instead of trying to release 3 million medocre products just to be in every market.

re: Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

Aaron — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 20:43:46 GMT

I think this is a big step in the right direction. In fact, it's kind of hard to justify buying the iPod 80gig over the Zune, unless you're deeply concerned with the extra 2mm in thickness.

I suppose there's still a lot to be figured out with build quality, screen display quality and such, but it sounds promising.

I'm personally waiting for a larger capacity iPod Touch. It's more my style. But for people still looking at the "classic" iPod, I think this would be a pretty good contender.

Though, I am tempted by the recorded TV MCE integration and wireless. The idea of stepping into the house and loading my recent shows wirelessly is kinda nice.

PS: I agree it's absolutely ridiculous that MSFT couldn't get the Zune working in WMP. I'm kind of shocked actually.

re: Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

chrisl — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 20:19:32 GMT

Shmoe: IMHO three plays is pointless. Really, it isn't worth my time waiting for it to transfer. Maybe it is just the way I listen to music, but I see no point in three plays. This might be different for you.

BTW, if most will go to their laptop or desktop to sync, then you consider the upgrade for wireless syncing to not be a big deal? I mean, if you are tied to a PC then wireless becomes pointless.

Also, on WMP 11 you say it is better and that PlaysForSure was great, but how great is it when Microsoft just drops it? Zune isn't PlaysForSure, and WMP 11 is not the Zune software.

My main problem with Microsoft in general right now is the lack of integration between products. I'm really sick of Microsoft trying to reinvent the wheel, no matter what the reasons are.

Yogi: I agree, but two different pieces will be the first thing to drive me away. I've put dozens of hours into getting WMP right so it can be used with Media Center. I will not maintain two databases that are really the exact same thing. It is a waste or my time and a waste of Microsoft's for creating both to start with.

re: Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

Yogi — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 18:24:08 GMT

I'm not saying they needed to create a new piece of software, just that the reason they did it is to create a closed architecture. You can see what they were trying to do with Portable Media Center in the history of Windows Mobile.

Windows Mobile, as PocketPC, was introduced when Palm was by far the dominate PDA platform. Microsoft released their PDA software as a platform that OEMs could use on their own hardware. It took a while for OEMs to move to Windows Mobile; it didn't really happen successfully until the first Compaq iPAQ devices. Now, Windows Mobile dominates the PDA market and does quite well in the smart phone arena as well.

In comparison, MS released the Portable Media Center format in hopes that OEMs would release hardware using it. The problem was that the early PMC devices didn’t sell because they were not very good, cost an arm and a leg, had no marketing. By the time a good and relatively inexpensive device finally arrived, the Gigabeat S, along with good software to go with it, WMP11, Microsoft had already drank the Apple Kool-Aid of closed architecture to fuel hardware sales. They rebadged the Gigabeat S as Zune and locked it down to their rebadged WMP11 as Zune Player and closed it all up tighter than a nun’s you-know-what.

I wish MS had continued down the path supplying a software platform for OEMs, like what they have done in the PDA, smart phone, and desktop OS market. It’s what they do best.

re: Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

Shmoe — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 18:04:38 GMT

MS didn't need to develop their own software. WMP11 is better than iTunes. Plays for Sure was good and recognizable with the public. Apple's closed system was only successful because of the hardware and marketing. All MS needed was a great piece of hardware with features and some marketing, not reinvent the wheel with the Zune software. A lot of people are now beginning to realize how restrictive iTunes is.

re: Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

Shmoe — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:59:56 GMT

I also think you can blame the damn European Union as well as the U.S. government for MS not using WMP11 in the first place.

re: Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

Yogi — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:55:50 GMT

The reason MS released the Zune Player software is to be MORE like Apple. They want a media player that is completely tied together with their hardware. The Zune and Zune Player is Microsoft changing their open PlaysForSure and Windows Media Player architecture to match the closed (albeit much more successful) iTunes and iPod architecture. It would be great if MS allowed the Zune to sync with WMP instead of only their Zune Software, but you can blame Apple for leading the way with this.

As is, I'm seriously thinking of replacing my Gigabeat S60 with a Zune 80, mainly due to my Gigabeat beginning to look a little ragged, but also for the larger capacity and screen. One feature I would seriously miss is being able to connect up my device to just about any Windows computer and dump some music to it. Reverse sync in WMP11 was a great invention. I'm not sure if Zune Player has it, but even if it does, I'd hate to have to install the Zune player to someone's computer if they don't have a Zune to accomplish the same feat.

re: Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

Shmoe — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:51:01 GMT

Chris, I think you need to give them some credit for relaxing the music sharing restrictions. The three day limit is gone, just still three plays, which is somewhat reasonable. Maybe they can work on bumping it to 5-10 plays.

It's close to being what it needs, but MS really needs to match every feature Apple offers and then some to compete. I would consider buying one now though. Why couldn't they have done this five years ago before Apple got so big? Here's the things I think they need to do to actually knock Apple off in no particular order:

1. It would be better to use WMP11. WMP is on 90+ percent of computers out there already. It's already better than iTunes. I don't want another piece of music software on my computer. But since MS seems intent on keeping the Zune software, how about give people a choice of which program to use.

2. I don't think a 10 foot sync is essential, nice, but not essential. Most people will go to there desktop or laptop to sync.

3. A full extender in the Zune would be awesome.

4. Clock, calculator, basic games etc. Just to to match Apple.

5. Wireless download store essential.

6. Larger capacities than Apple or at least the same as Apple's current offerings.

7. The price point is good, but to really compete, they need all the features of v2 plus these that I list at $199 to $225 to really steal Apple customers.

8. Consistently market it, market it, market it on TV, Internet and in print.

9. Mac OSX support, just to add another feature on the sheet, though it's doubtful many Mac OSX users will really switch, they are pretty rabid.

The sad thing is, like I said, is that MS should have been in the game five years ago. Unfortunately, the new Zunes will be competing this Christmas against the iPhone. Even though it's got a larger capacity, people will look their limited dollars, the feature os both and then choose.

re: Zune Updates: What Do You Think?

Zik — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:36:58 GMT

The 3 play restriction on shared audio really cripples the trememdous potential of tis feature and turns it into a bad joke. It would be better if they never included this feature. That was they would never have created the expectation of more seamless sharing and not created such a huge disappointment with this restriction. If they allow the sharing of non-DRM content without restrictions, this could really be the run away social device they are hoping for.