v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

re: v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

Charles Fraser — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:35:14 GMT

Joe, my only question is why no Softsled? While the mainstream may have no use for this us hobbyists have been wanting this for a long, long time. Even if you sold this for $100 or even $200 many, if not all, of us would buy it. We could make our own extenders. I'm guessing many of us are tech people and probably have extra PC parts or whole PCs lying around that we would love to give a purpose to. Can you please address this? This has got to be one of the top requests from the community.

re: v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

kevin — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 21:28:06 GMT

do the v2 extenders have better video quality than the xbox 360... my dvr-ms files do NOT look near as good from 360 as from a htpc

re: v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

Marty — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 03:37:25 GMT

Everyone I know would like to replace their cable DVR's with "something else" and really likes Media Center but...

Won't do this unless the replacement works as easily as my cable company dvr (well IJW most of the time)

Want's HD provided via a mechanism other than by the convoluted cable card fiasco

Feels burned by the V1 obsolescence. I owned mine less than a year before finding out I was screwed. This is borderline business behavior that doesn't win fans or more importantly repeat customers.

Aren't interested in ripping off Hollywood.

We all either pay a pretty penny for the programming or it's free OTA. Surprise, surprise, 99% of us aren't going to record the shows we pay for and resell them to our neighbors. Honest people don't like being treated like crooks.

The price point must be much less than what I paid for my buggy V1 Linksys Extender.

At this point I really don't want to use anyones product in particular - just one that works! Either case after V1 it will be a very hard sell for me to spend $200 on V2

re: v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

James M — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:19:43 GMT

Joe,

Based on the *assumption* that there are more XBOX 360s connected to TVs at the moment than there are MCE HTPCs, I have to say I *do* think it's the wrong strategy.

If it was my call, the product I would be trying to release yesterday would be a headless media center server pitched at current XBOX 360 owners.

This device would contain the bare minimum hardware and software required to run Vista Media Center (and I'm talking a unique Windows version here, or at least a thoroughly stripped Home Premium). It shouldn't be configurable, and there should never be a need to remote in to it. For the rest of this post I'll refer to such a device as the XMEDIA.

The XMEDIA would have a thermal properties such that it could be positioned in a unventilated cupboard without causing overheating.

The XMEDIA would be visually styled to match the XBOX 360. (I would hope better that the HD-DVD drive)

The XMEDIA would not necessarily include any wireless networking by default, with the expectation that it could be networked with an XBOX 360 via just a non-cross-over CAT5 cable.

The XMEDIA would include a single HDTV tuner.

The XMEDIA would include adequate storage for a DVR appliance.

The XMEDIA would be *externally* upgradeable. If users want more storage, they just plug it in. More tuners? Plug them in. No opening of cases, no driver installation.

The XMEDIA would be as feature rich (storage/extensibility ports/slots/wireless) as possible, while still matching or under-cutting the Apple TV price point.

The XMEDIA could much more easily be pitched against Apple TV, with a far superior feature set.

I could go on, however I think this sketches an adequate idea of what the XMEDIA device would be.

But, having outlined the above, what advantages does it offer?

Well, from my perspective at least, it's an easier sale to the consumer. They're not buying a 'computer', they're extending the functionality of a device they already have.

It could leverage the market awareness of the Apple TV.

There's no maintenance/installation/drivers, and there's no software conflicts because it's a closed system.

You could buy one for your Dad/Sister/Aunt/Friend and know that you won't have to support it.

Its benefits are discoverable. Rather that the whole media-server-in-the-den mess of a market communication concept, you just provide the functionality that people are looking for in a package that they expect to find it in. The media will help them discover that it could be put in the den/garage/under the stairs, and that it could be extended to other XBOX 360s or extender devices.

It'll be cheap, relatively speaking. The XBOX 360 is doing a large chunk of the grunt work (decoding, rendering), while the device is really just managing I/O (with the possible notable exception of encoding (if analogue recording is required (transcoding could be handled asynchronously on the 360 - it's got more than enough grunt)).

Basically, the scenario is this right now: You buy a cheap Media Center (AU $1400) and you end up with an ugly, noisy box in your living room with all the accompanying maintenance issues, and require a pet techie to keep it all going for you.

If Microsoft built the XMEDIA, XBOX 360 owners would get the same functionality for a fraction of the cost (AU $450 approx). It'd be less ugly, or at least ugly in a more acceptable way, and it'd be just as noisy, but you'd blame the XBOX 360 rather than the XMEDIA for that.

So, an XBOX 360 + an XMEDIA would end up costing about the same as a cheap media center, BUT the cost over time would be less (no maintenance, no incompatibility, fixed ecology), it's an easier sale, and you'd be fulfilling a genuine consumer desire rather than trying to create what is fundamentally a difficult to communicate/educate market.

But... wasn't this thread about V2 extenders? Yeah, it was. But it also became about Microsoft's strategy when you (Joe) asked for feedback as to whether you'd got the strategy wrong.

And, I guess, what it fundamentally comes down to is that for the extender strategy to work, people have to *experienced* something that they want to *extend* in the first place.

If you built the XMEDIA, you'd have a much better chance that people will encounter an experience they value enough to want to extend, and its packaged in such a way that it doesn't take a CS major to explain how it would benefit them in the first place.

James.

PS. While I understand that you want to foster a third party hardware ecology for MCE, and that that's part of the reason for your current extender strategy, I can't help but feel you're going the wrong way about it. Build the above device, market successfully, and you won't need to invest the amazing resources you do at the moment convincing third parties to create compatible hardware. Third parties will happily note your success, recognize the market, and undercut you on price/features/performance. Which is what you want in the end, isn't it? They'll end up making the hardware, and you'll get your clip on the underlying software.

re: v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

Mike J — Fri, 05 Oct 2007 18:39:16 GMT

Joe,

I am also glad you are reading these posts. I just built a new home and spent $15,000 on wiring and $3,500 on a top end MCE solution, the Sony Vaio VGX-XL3, against the recommendations of the custom installer who was proposing an Apple Solution.

I carry the following Microsoft certification titles: MCSE, MCSD.NET MCSD, MCAD and have been a Microsoft Certified trainer since 1996. My belief was that I wanted a full home HD media and home automation solution that was compatible with my existing Microsoft network.

Here are the major problems I have in trying to achieve these goals that SHOULD BE quite simple to overcome:

1) I cannot record and play at the same time because only 1 tuner was shipped with my box. Ordering a 2nd tuner is not allowed because apparently, since I am not a custom installer with years of Apple experience, I don’t know how to install the tuner.

2) I cannot stream from my MCE to the bedrooms using a non XBOX solution, as was advertised on the Microsoft site, because there is no extender available. I cannot have a loud fan in the bedrooms, and I have an 11 year old that would love an XBOX, but does not need any more educational distractions.

3) I have not setup the home automation completely because I’m not sure I will ever get an adequate solution from MCE. I also suspect the software I was using may have been interfering with my Cablecard which keeps getting lost, especially on reboot, with a No Tuner Found message.

I have a friend who is President and CEO of an OEM electronics company. I’m not sure if he is involved with the MCE or Apple solutions, he’s always tight-lipped about insider information. When I described the problem to him he was able to complete my sentences. He made the following observations; one, who ever can make this simple and cheap will make and own this market, two, the price-point for a full home HD media and automation solution, excluding network, needs to be in the $5K range in order to achieve wide market appeal.

Based on this, I would make the following recommendations to you:

1) Make the market. Would you rather risk a few million making this work now, or lose many more millions in existing investment because Apple ends up owning the market. Remember, they MADE the iPod market because they made the investment before they got the return.

2) Borrow resources from Microsoft’s Zero-Administration initiatives to help make this easy to setup and maintain. Make it plug-and-play and easier than the rest. There will be plenty of work for the custom installers just as there are still jobs for system administrators and network administrators in the corporate world after zero-administration. Please listen to, not pander to, the custom installers.

3) Use Microsoft’s usability labs for setup and maintenance, not just user experience.

4) Solve the cable card issue. I should be able to plug an inexpensive box into a USB port that has support for 4 Cablecards.

5) Solve the extender issue. If you want to sell MCE boxes, and have Windows embedded in the whole home, it needs to be as easy as plugging a telephone into a wall socket.

6) Figure out how to target a full home solution into a package for $5,000. Best Buy supposedly has one for $15k. I almost got this. It would have been a no-brainer if it was $5,000.

re: v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

joboehl — Thu, 04 Oct 2007 03:58:35 GMT

Joe,

Every now and them a new user asks in the forums if they can watch TV from another Vista computer. Some call it softsled, some call it another names.

Every now and them users like me complain about after years, not having decent support for standards outside US and constant problems with EPG.

It's being a while since the same questions and features are being requested by the communities trough forums and e-mails, and I'am sure MS hears this. I'am sure MS knows that the community whants Softsled like funcionality and that it does make sense. The problem is that MS never delivers.

In terms of innovation, MS has some very nice ideas. MCE is one example. If it wasn't for Windows MCE the whole HTPC market would be different. But as a product, MS fails to deliver.

Amazes me how some other softwares from smaller companies or even open sources can implement some features having only one or two developert, years before MS. Look at MediaPortal and it's TV Server. Look at WebEPG and TV Web Streaming.

What drove me away from MCE (I'am not longer using it as my MC solution, just on my test machine) is that I always feel limited with it. For a software thats in its 4th generation, not having some basic features like external EPG import, broader TV Support and PC based extender funcionality is too much.

BTW: As for the extender. If price it's bad in the US imagine outside when they might not even be sold. In Brazil, a xbox360 costs $1500. How about that for an "Extender"? I could buy 2 computers with monitors for that price and use it as extenders. Oh no, wait, MS doesn't allow me to do that. ;)

re: v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

RyanLM — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 04:18:37 GMT

Joe,

I am glad you are reading these posts and concerns. I to have been waiting forever for a DirecTV announcement. I think that the restrictions on CableCard are a bit too tight, although I dont know what you can do about them. I want to build my own system, I dont wan't to pay for some overpriced hardware.

Also mentioned is Codec support. It doens't have to suck, but at present, half of what I download just will not work. It is a codec, not magic.

Personally, I think look at MCE, and MS's current situation in general, the company's focus should shift to simply enabling people to use their computers and be happy. Let people do what they want to do without silly restrictions. Dont shove formats down my neck, if you want to get me to use something, make it better and the easiest to use and trust me - I WILL. I feel like I hit constant road blocks using MCE.

I love the concept, I love the UI, but I am in the middle of a remodel, wired everthing for MCE - but to get the systems and the functionality I want I have to find a "Professional Installer" to get me product at at least twice the price. I can freaking make an MCE application yet have to pay some twit money to get the gear. I am speaking from a complete system, security, home automation, etc. Enable people to cut middlemen out, why not? I have put together a simple INSTEON based system with ease, but I had to add some of the glue myself. Anyway..

Other things, Stream DVDs I am sick of fumbling with discs. Release Softsled it can't be that hard. UMPC + Softsled - great touch interface for mediacenter content, love to use one as a sweet remote.

How about this, you come up with something! Seriously, half of the things, heck all of the things mentioned here should not even need to be said. They are simple, obvious needs to anyone who has tried to enjoy the product. MS seems to have all the power and pull any company could ever have yet companies like Apple are bringing products to market that amaze and steal peoples attention. Why?

MS of late has been nothing but a sad story, Vista isnt even a glimmer of what it was supposed to be, Zune was a flop, Wii is beating Xbox (granted that is a fluke), ahh!! You know, for having one of the coolest development technologies (.Net/VS) a lot of crap is coming out of Redmond for some reason.

I want MS to amaze me again, every time I use my iPhone I am amzed by good UI and good design, I tossed my 700w in a lake after halving the iPhone for 3 days - that is how good the design is. WM 5.0 vs iPhone 1.0 - that just shoudn't be.

Is anyone listening? Does MS care?

re: v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

Foster — Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:03:41 GMT

I understand the CI market and driving some of the adoption. But I think you are missing a BIG piece of that puzzle.

Lets take home automation as a benchmark, starts off with CI, moves to hobbyist/DIY, then down to Lowes. It is in transition to Lowes now with ZWave and other devices showing up on store shelves.

What you are missing? You already have the hobbyist, the neighbor that has this great technology running his entertainment system. He is the neighbor likely in the same income category and not in the scale of classification reserved for the CI market. Things move within an income class quickly, but they are much slower in transferring across the railroad tracks.

Right now, your hobbyists are not happy.

re: v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

Duane L. — Mon, 01 Oct 2007 18:54:58 GMT

A comment on MS strategy...

I would buy MCE or an MCE box if I could get non-OTA HD. While I can use the Homerun device, I would hate to dump a grand getting something together only to see a price drop in CableCard machines. So, I am waiting for a CableCard machine price drop, until then I'll live without easy recording, as I have done the last 10 years, listen to music on my IPOD or hook it up to my receiver and stick a disk into a DVD player.

I think with lower price hardware (CableCard), or solid QAM support, MCE would be the platform to beat. Until then, I'll spend my money elsewhere...

re: v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

chrisl — Mon, 01 Oct 2007 14:35:18 GMT

Daniel: Sounds like you are trying to say the box support HTML formatted MCE applications and therefore has no disadvantages over a true Media Center Extender?

So, it doesn't support the Vista UI that I'm taking about. It might support old HTML Online Spotlight applications, but that's not the devices main UI. They are simpley add on applications delivered over the web.

I'm taking about the Vista Media Center UI, which those boxes do not support in any fashion. So yes, the DSM-520 has significant UI disadvantages in my mind.

re: v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

Daniel — Mon, 01 Oct 2007 14:15:22 GMT

I would like to correct your statement about the DSM-520 UI --- “I’d also like to note that D-Link has their DSM-520, and while it is not a Media Center Extender it does support the exact same formats (DVR-MS, MPEG-2, WMV9, MPEG-4 ASP, MPEG-4 AVC) and can be purchased for $150 to $180 at major US retailers. While the UI sucks, you are basically paying double the price for a true Media Center Extender that gives you access to the nice UI” --- In fact the active-TV technology update from D-Link enables the DSM-520 to support the same MCE UI. Please see active-tv.blogspot.com/.../arrival-of-more-boxes-supporting.html In fact the DSM-520 has no UI disadvantage.

re: v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

Joe H — Mon, 01 Oct 2007 02:35:28 GMT

BTW, RELEASE A SOFTSLED PRODUCT!!!!

re: v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

Joe H — Mon, 01 Oct 2007 02:34:43 GMT

Joe - You guys really need to get on the ball and start releasing more info about your work with DirecTV. The are LOTS of customers who are waiting on this solution, but nothing has been said since CES '06. That's way too long to go without any update. If you don't believe me, check out the Ask Jessica forum on The Green Button.

re: v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

John C — Sun, 30 Sep 2007 16:46:44 GMT

Thanks for the insights Joe, they were very informative!

As frustrated as a lot of us are with the slow moving MCE solution and, from what i've read, unreliable cablecard implementations, the state of MCE really needs to judged relative to competing solutions. I think its clear the biggest competition for MCE is Apple because if they figure out how to get HD Tivo functionality on their platform (which, imo, doesn't including buying stuff on iTunes), MCE will be in big trouble.

I recognize the need to support and promote partners in this space but imo MS needs to step up and take ownership of an end to end hardware solution. The allure of the apple platform is that you just plug the stuff in and it works. Yeah I know it sounds trite but now that DVR functionality is commonplace, our families expect reliable operation of these devices. The velocity micro discussion on AVS is a total nightmare for would be and current cablecard adopters. Theres tons of hardware and software issues on the platform right now and the last thing any of us wants is the call from our wives (or husbands!) at work saying how the "xbox is saying it cant find the extender" or "when i play the show its a blank screen".

What we need for mainstream adoption is for MS to step up and offer an appliance-like media center that is tested like crazy with the hardware that comes in it, has minimal configuration options, and just WORKS, is quiet, and reliable. Without that, the support and frustration that seems to exist with current solutions is going make MCE a non-viable product for PC partners.

There can still be alternatives from your partners, but i think there needs to be some product leadership for the mainstream user. The pieces are almost all there, they just need to be tied together better, and soon.

re: v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

Richard Steenbegen — Sun, 30 Sep 2007 05:20:08 GMT

You know, I'm a huge fan of the MCE platform. I've been using it with Xbox 360 extenders for a while now, and for SD content I really like it as a solution for unified media access across multiple rooms.

Unfortunately, the lack of real HD support is just killing the platform. OTA HD is fine, but it isn't enough to make a useful HD platform. CableCard support is a great step forward (though its deployment has been absurdly slow), but this is still not a complete solution for the HD using market. I personally use DirecTV, now with wonderful new HD channels, which means that I can't use MCE for HD at all.

This promised DirecTV tuner card would certainly go a long way to solving this issue, but at this point the promise is starting to ring hollow. We're coming up on almost 2 years since it was announced, with absolutely NO offical updates from Microsoft about when we can actually expect it. Is there some reason we can't get some actual information about this? Is there some reason that MCE boxes can't just take standard component inputs and control a set top box via IR like on every other platform?

With DirecTV's new HD channels, Microsoft is now in a position to lose a lot of its adopters so far if it can't come out with a viable solution (or at least some information so that we can justify waiting). Once users like me are forced to buy HR20s to replace our MCE boxes, it will be too late. Everyone I know with an HDTV and everyone I see in any number of forums is in the same situation.

re: v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

Joe Belfiore (MS) — Sat, 29 Sep 2007 20:00:18 GMT

Forgot to add this point.

Our team is really aiming to try to enable the BROADEST set of consumers to be able to get a great media/entertainment experience in any room of their house. So, when Chris says "ehome is targeting mainstream consumers", he is right.

That said, it's also the case that the high-end installer channel is important to us and we have started spending a lot more energy there.

Reasons to target the CEDIA channel:

- one of the hardest things about this whole endeavor is that setting up a home network is still hard, and understanding what pieces you need is still hard. A custom home installer will do that work for you.

- OEMs like Niveus and EI are *completly focused* on making the whole-home media scenario work, where OEMs like HP and Dell are doing many many things. the smaller companies in some ways push the technology more effectively than the bigger ones. In some cases they create learnings that the bigger ones can't/don't. (eg., they are satisfied with products that ship in smaller volumes, etc.)

- what's happening in the CEDIA channel moves towards the mainstream over time. One good example is new home builders selling "Media Center packages" as part of a brand-new home ... ethernet in the walls, plasmas on the walls, Xboxes, MCEs, extenders, all set up for you and built into your mortgage.

Until Windows Vista with CableCard, we didn't think we had a truly viable product for the high-end home -- no HD, not viable. But now we are seeing the more cutting edge folks get enthused about what we can enable.

So, we think it makes sense to help out in that channel and make sure that they have products that make sense for them. We think ultimately it will speed up the technology "trickle down".

thx

re: v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

Joe Belfiore (MS) — Sat, 29 Sep 2007 19:51:42 GMT

I thought I'd chime in with a few thoughts from our (MS) point of view. (I'm Joe Belfiore-- the guy who runs the Media Center/Extender team at MS and who did the Digital Life keynote.)

First, know that we are hearing you. Like you, we are enthusiasts ourselves about the promise of having all our media available in every room, with support for ALL OF THE CONTENT to work right, the system to have a nice UI, be available at low prices and through devices that don't make a lot of fan noise or have other issues.

we have chosen a model where we try to make all of this happen through both some 1st party devices (Xbox) but also through 3rd parties. Frankly, we think the "lock-in" model where you must choose devices from just one vendor is too limiting for the broadest market, but at the same time there are challenges in getting a lot of different companies to work effectively together.

On the price of V2 extenders....

The prices of these devices is "designed" to be cheaper. historically, the extender program was:

V1. highly proprietary hw + software to prove the concept and see how well it could work.

V2. embed the software in a POWERFUL first-party box and make sure it's easy to setup, works well (HD!) and get high volume.

V3. (today) a software kit that runs on INEXPENSIVE hardware and can be adapted to any device

You all are seeing just the very first devices implementing part 3. The companies who have done this work are making marketing/pricing decisions that you clearly aren't too fond of, but in my view are at least rational. (A totally fair thing to debate!) Their view is:

- they need to build a device that a WIDE AUDIENCE (that's not you...) could install and make work reasonably, else their returns will be too high. To that end, they are putting 802.11N hardware (dual band) in the device. This is probably the biggest cost adder.

- for the near term, there are a bunch of enthusiasts who are more likely to pay a higher price because there is already some demand for devices like this. Since these companies have spent a bunch of money doing this engineering, they want to recoup that cost and the early adopters will help them do it.

The GOOD NEWs is that the software we've built can run on very inexpensive hardware, has a VERY LOW license cost (and I mean VERY low) and is available to lots of companies... so if there's some modest success in the category (not clear at this point in time ... home networking is still pretty tough) then more companies will enter, we'll see more competition, wider range of devices, and prices dropping.

I think the best thing you can do here is let the hardware manufacturers know what you want. Someone said "give us a non-wireless device that's even cheaper-- we have ethernet in our homes!" -- it's a perfectly valid device idea, and you'd be correct that it'd cost less ... but the problem is that some hardware company has to believe there's a market big enough to warrant making that investment. At some point, someone will ... just not clear when or who. As much as you'd like us (MS) to be able to influence all these folks to build wide range of devices and to set their prices, really it's their business and their investment and they absolutely make this decision based on what they think the market will support. We were hoping to have some different device types -- a DVD player, a TV set, a DMA -- for launch, and we did manage to at least hit that bar.

On codec support for Xbox 360 ...

Unfortunately I can't comment on any specific product plans around the Xbox 360, but I will make a principled statement that our top priority is to try to deliver the solutions that end-users want and will benefit from the most. The hardware chips in the 3rd party Extender devices have "native" support for a pretty wide range of codecs, and the Xbox360 is older hardware that requires software codecs in most cases. There's the physics of work and time involved.

On the general point of how long it's taking us to get this whole thing to exist, work well, and be cheap...

I agree there's a lot of work still to do (across the board) -- but then again the TV industry has had about 60 years to evolve to this point and we're trying to catch up to and influence the business models, content flow, and technology in a relatively short period of time.

We have tried to release software *quickly* -- something new that matters every year-- and we plan to keep that going. I hear you "not fast enough!" :)

The best feedback we can get from you really is:

1) what features are MOST important to you (and that's coming through pretty clear)

2) do you think we are picking the wrong strategy? Or if you think this is a good approach, we'd love ideas for how to make the market go a little faster.

Hope I don't sound defensive here, but i think some of these effects are really the near-term downside and risk of working on an open platform.

thx

re: v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

Eric — Sat, 29 Sep 2007 16:35:41 GMT

Why can't I have a small silent PnP wired extender the size of a couple of CD boxes that I can tuck away out of view. I'm willing to forgo the DVD streaming - I just want to have a simple hardwired Pika box that provides (the full) Vista MCE functionality on my TV. As the preceeding extender v1 technology didn't last longer than a disposable nappy, I'd be loath to spend more than $150 on any v2 box. But at such a price (and even with some of the 'shoot-yourself-in-the-foot' self-imposed functionality flaws) I'd run out and buy a couple straight away.

re: v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

CanadianMCXer — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 06:29:40 GMT

Our primary purpose is watching any shows we record anywhere in the house.

I rent movies and rip them with DVD-WMV. No menus and no "skipping" but we get to watch the movies we paid to rent where ever and whenever in our house.

As a hard-core hobbyist here in Canada, I can deal with this MSRP of 300ish. Over the years, I paid about 300CDN on average per MCX (and that was before going to par with the USD so the avg USD value would be between 200 and 300).

Canada has fallen so far behind the US in open cable box standards and HDTV. Also, we don't have OTA HD so all HD has to come through cable/satellite company's DCTs. Since there is only a few channels that are HD we primarily watch everything in SD.

Shaw Cable Canada charges over 700!!!! for their dual tuner Motorolla HD PVR (I think they now have an SD PVR for about 500). And these things are not networkable and have small hard drives.

What will continue to prevent me from entering the Vista/MCXv2 market at this price-point is Canada's non-competitive cable industry. Until I can plug a Shaw Cable or Bell ExpressVU Satellite CableCard into my MCE and watch 90%+ HD shows on my MCX I see no point. It would be like buying a Corvette and leaving the Valet key in the ignition :D

re: v2 Extenders Let Down Big in Price Points

chrisl — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 01:45:53 GMT

I'm not sure I completely understand your Media Center into the wild.

Pika, the v2 Extender platform is just this. The point is that OEMs can add Extender functionality to any number of devices, AVRs, HDTVs, DVD Players, etc. I strongly suggest the concept, but not at the 2x premium that these first Extenders are launching at.

Is there something else, behinds Pika that you are suggesting or are they one in the same?