website hit counter First BOCR Details Emerge from Ceton Corp - Chris Lanier

First BOCR Details Emerge from Ceton Corp

Bidirectional OpenCable Receiver (BOCR) appears to really be picking up some speed.  I posted a few days ago about Ceton Corp new card that looked to me like a BOCR, and immediately sent off an e-mail trying to get more details.  Unfortunately for me, I haven’t received a reply.  Fortunately for everyone including me, reader Mike did get a reply a few weeks ago and sent me an e-mail with the details!  So, everyone can thank Mike for these details, not me.

On known side of things, this tuner will indeed have M-Card support.  This means you will just need a single tuner and CableCARD in order to tune two channels at once, finally a break when it comes to the overall price of CableCARD PCs!  Bidirectional support has also been confirmed based on the e-mail, so access to On Demand content, PPV, and SDV content shouldn’t be as much of an issue now although for On Demand/PPV we really need to wait for the BOCR specs to see if it will actually be supported within Media Center. 

Update: Ceton will have two tuners.  The first to be released will be an MOCUR or M-Card OCUR.  This adds "multi-tuner" abilities by using M-Card to tune two (or more) channels at once.  Then, they will also have a BOCR as described in the rest of this post.  MOCURs are not bidirectional.

On to the stuff that was not known, OCAP/OpenCable is going to be there.  In other words, the Ceton card will be a true BOCR!

If you have been reading me other post you know that the BOCR specs have not been finalized or really even announced publically by CableLabs at this point.  Because of this, exact features and details of the card are likely to change based on those specs that come out of CableLabs.

In regards to OCAP/OpenCable, one of the most interesting bits of Ceton reply is that their “hardware does support downloadable EPGs; most of which will come in the form of an OCAP application or a plug-in to Microsoft Vista.”  This is where I have the least information, as OCAP is really the pickle in all third party CableCARD devices like Media Center and TiVo.

BOCRs are likely to use a split version of OCAP with part of it running on the BCOR and part running within Windows Media Center.  Because of this, it is going to be very interesting to see how this will impact the platform.  Microsoft submitted .NET to CableLabs a few years ago with the idea that it could be used in-place of Java/GEM for developing OCAP applications.  I don’t know any other details about that side of things or what happened with the proposal, but I’m going to assume that is where OCAP support is going to come from within Windows Media Center.

Everything else with BOCR is likely to work the same way as current OCURs.  You will still need HDMI-HDCP for digital connections to your display; content will still be protected with either WMDRM or Helix DRM which is part of the specs put out of CableLabs; tuners will still be limited to OEM machines unless CableLabs does a complete 180 in the finalized BOCR specs. For OCUR details, see my Vista CableCARD FAQ.

Ceton didn’t provide any details on the release date, but since we now know it is a true BOCR that release will be dictated by CableLabs.  And since CableLabs has not publically announced BOCR or even released revision 0.1 of the specs, I wouldn’t expect to see this tuner anytime soon.  On the plus side (maybe), CableLabs might have something else in store to help bridge the gap.  I’ll have more on this next week.

Very special thanks to Mike!

Published Tue, Nov 6 2007 21:04 by chrisl

Comments

# re: First BOCR Details Emerge from Ceton Corp

Wow, this is great news....Guess I'll be waiting for a while longer. Wonder if this is what pushed Sony to sell standalone DCTs, Okoro to sell an "affordable" system, no DCTs in the XPS 420, etc.?

Tuesday, November 06, 2007 11:08 PM by sfiorito

# re: First BOCR Details Emerge from Ceton Corp

Hmm, with TWC deploying OCAP STBs I find your statement about BOCR not being ready confusing. Are you saying that once again, big cable can deploy OCAP STBs that are BOCR, but not 3rd parties, because CableLabs has yet to complete the 3rd party spec?

The other thought that makes me cringe is seeing a cable co's extremely ugly EPG showing up in a 'plug-in' and the fantastic Media Center UI.

Wednesday, November 07, 2007 8:47 AM by Ben Drawbaugh

# re: First BOCR Details Emerge from Ceton Corp

BOCR has nothing to do with OCAP STBs.  BOCR is the upgrade to OCUR, a PC specific spec only.  CableLabs has yet to finish (or announce) the BOCR specs.  OCAP STBs don't use any part of the BOCR (or OCUR) specs as it is a PC spec.  In other words, bidriectional OCAP STBs don't use the upcoming BCOR specs.  They use the existing OpenCable whatever specs as defined by CableLabs.

By definition, and OCUR (and thereforce BOCR) is a digital cable receiver with a tuner that has a CableCARD interface and an IP interface.  It provides multi-user, multi-room scenarios where the content flows over IP to a Home Media Server (HMS).  An HMS is specifically a Windows Vista PC.

I don't think we know what the EPG will look like yet, but my guess is that it will not differ much on the outside from what you see now.

Wednesday, November 07, 2007 11:18 AM by chrisl

# re: First BOCR Details Emerge from Ceton Corp

If it takes a while for the BOCR spec to get finalized, it wouldn't surprise me if Ceton starts offering this new card as an OCUR card in the meantime.

If they are lucky then, future support for BOCR might come from new firmware/drivers and not require any hardware changes.

(Heck, even ATI's DCT might get BOCR support through new firmware.  We just don't know.)

--Don

Wednesday, November 07, 2007 12:21 PM by dondu

# re: First BOCR Details Emerge from Ceton Corp

No, BOCR will require hardware changes.  OCURs are unidirectional by nature, there are significant changes that happen to make it a BOCR.  The fact that the specs are not near complete wouldn't look good for the OCUR upgrade concept either.  I've got some OCUR upgrade info that will come short, but BOCR doesn't equal OCUR in the hardware department at all.

Wednesday, November 07, 2007 12:34 PM by chrisl

# re: First BOCR Details Emerge from Ceton Corp

Regarding this comment:

"By definition, and OCUR  . . . It provides multi-user, multi-room scenarios where the content flows over IP to a Home Media Server (HMS)."

Are you saying there will be a way to display HD content (from an HD STB or HDDVD or Blue Ray) on multiple displays throughout the home?

To do that without violating the HDCP license it seems a server would have to receive the HDMI HDCP encrypted streams doing all the handshaking and decryption and then create a separate stream for each display and encrypt it via HDCP to send to each display location.

I don't think this is likely to happen - at least not in most homes - and the compromise of HDMI's point to point limitation and being tied to one display in the entire home seems ludicrous.

Seven years ago I set up my system with 4 Tivo's, a STB and a DVD player in a closet where the selected output is modulated back onto a channel on our cable system so whatever we watch appears on all TV's in the house.  It's like watching live TV.  I would not give that benefit and convenience up for the absurd "benefits" claimed by HDMI - mainly what's called "HD Audio" with it's 8 channels of uncompressed audio sampled at 192 KHz which I am convinced no human alive can distinguish from 48 KHz audio.

My solution is to not use HDMI and its HD Audio and distribute s/pdif and component video

around my home instead.

If anyone thinks this is a big compromise they need to read a little communication theory - particularly the Nyquist theorem - and they'll discover 48 KHz sampling can reproduce 24 KHz audio perfectly and no human can hear 24 KHz audio! Most of us do well to hear 20KHz and microphones and speakers usually can't even handle 20 KHz so sampling above 48 KHz is a joke to most engineers and pure specsmanship in consumer products.

Thursday, November 08, 2007 4:00 PM by Nick Johnson

# re: First BOCR Details Emerge from Ceton Corp

Not really sure about most of your reply.  OCUR is shipping and has been for a long time.  All this stuff currently works and has nothing to do with "streaming" over HDMI-HDCP.  We are not talking about using a distbrution amp and running HDMI or using component baluns.  This solution uses standard CAT5.

The point of OCUR (or BCOR) is to enable cable content to be brought into a PC and streamed to compabile device.  This is not a violation of HDCP, and has nothing to do with HD DVD or Blu-ray.

Content is wrapped in WMDRM and streamed that way.  There is nothing new about this, PCs have been shipping for nearly a year doing it.  Nothing new.

It has nothing to do with HDMI either, though on digital outputs either locally on the PC or on an Extender (like Xbox 360), HDCP is needed for the output.

Also, your understanding of HDMI and audio is incorrect.  If your sources are DVD and HDTV, AC3 is only in question and is not is 48KHz max.  HDMI carries this fine, as does SPDIF as you say.  None of those sources have anything greater.  That said, HD DVD and Blu-ray can.  If you want more information on what HDMI is for these, search HDMI 1.3 on this site and I have a post all about it.

Thursday, November 08, 2007 4:17 PM by chrisl

# Apple Blog » Blog Archive » First Details on CableCard, Part 2

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# re: First BOCR Details Emerge from Ceton Corp

Hi everyone!

My name is Jeremy Hammer.  I am VP of System Integration and an engineer here at Ceton Corp working on the new Multi-Channel CableCARD tuner with M-Card support.  I'm sorry if we have not answered your email, we try to respond as quickly as possible.  We have been a little busy here lately as you can imagine :)

First I would like to address when we are planning to release our products.  We plan on having a Multi-OCUR (MOCUR) device certified by CableLabs early in 2008 with production shortly thereafter.

As for BOCR, we have been doing development and plan on releasing this product as soon as CableLabs has finalized the spec and will certify it.  Unfortunately we do not have control over the timing of this, but rest assured we will be ready when they do.

We have made a modular design of our multi-channel DCT with the main device having support for two channels and less expensive "daughter" cards adding two channels at a time up to six.  These "daughter" cards plug into the main device and do not have any extra Coax connectors and do not need another CableCARD.  This will allow you to record and/or stream six HD1080i streams WITH ONE CABLECARD.

We would like to offer our products both through pre-built Media PCs as well as standalone. Again this decision is not up to us, but the recent news about Sony selling the ATI DCT by itself is promising.

We are a relatively small company and have a lot of pride in our work. We believe in doing the job right, and we have extremely high standards.  I hope you will be happy with what we have done and of course we welcome your suggestions.

Thanks!

-Jeremy

Saturday, November 10, 2007 12:13 AM by Jeremy Hammer