Click Here to visit Embedded Automation - mControl
Update on Stolen Images from WebGuide4 Used In MediaPortal - Chris Lanier's Blog

Update on Stolen Images from WebGuide4 Used In MediaPortal

Should it be any shock they never released this application?  Your probably right though, nothing to hide on their part and clearly nothing was stolen in this coverup which resulted in no application being released.

Update 3: Before commenting, remember that no one from MediaPortal has contacted Doug or replied to his e-mails as of 04/04/2007 at 1 pm CST

Despite MediaPortal's "mistake" saying they only “borrowed” the graphics, Doug has posted more code samples in the comments of my other post.  You can compare the code of WebGuide to the code of MediaPortal and see the similarities.  As I have said, I’m not a programmer but I do understand a few of the basics and I do see similarities in the two.  Feel free to compare.  It’s hard to not think that the code was lifted from WebGuide4 when you consider what else they have admitted to already “borrowing.”

Doug also posted a follow-up to the reply by Frodo from MediaPortal with a post in his support forums

Doug: “I'm mystified as to why I was not contacted by MediaPortal in the first place when they wanted to "borrow" my work, and I'm having difficulty reconciling Frodo's explanation with the extent of the "borrowing" that took place.  My entire library of images (more than 120 and the WebGuide logo) were included in the MediaPortal site, my stylesheets are being used, and the source-code is strewn with hardcoded pieces from my HTML/ASPX pages.  There's also some awfully familiar logic flows to the layout.  And the site was even called WebGuide!  That's an awful lot of "borrowing!"  I am reassured that Frodo has stated that any references to or infringements upon WebGuide's copyrighted material will be removed from MediaPortal's site.

I've spent thousands of hours over the past four years turning WebGuide into what it is today, and it is discouraging and even a little mind-boggling to find that someone has "borrowed" my work to jump start their own product.  I appreciate the Media Center communities' overwhelming support and help in solving this issue.  Developing for such an engaged and loyal community is extremely satisfying, and I look forward to focusing on making WebGuide an even better product.”

So, you can judge for yourself based on everything that has happened today.  I see it as a huge problem, and MediaPortal's cover-up of the issue is an even bigger one.

Of course, Media Center users (MCE 2005/Vista) should check out WebGuide4. Download it here.

Update:

And so in contiues….The MediaPortal  Admin’s edited my post in their forums to point to Doug’s forums instead of my blog.  Not that I have a problem with people going to Doug’s forums (I’ve linked to them several times today and have been communicating with Doug too) but MediaPortal is now trying to cover up this even more by forcing users to only see the information they want them to see.

Yeah, they have nothing to hide.

If they didn't want users to see their "mistake," the frist step would have been not to steal someone else's work.  Be it a single image, line of code, or whole program.

Stop trying to cover it up MediaPortal guys, it ain't going to work. 

Related:

MediaPortal Steals Images from WebGuide4 Developer (Rips Off Program)

Updated: Did MediaPortal Just Rip-Off WebGuide4?

Update 3: Before commenting, remember that no one from MediaPortal has contacted Doug or replied to his e-mails as of 04/04/2007 at 1 pm CST.

Note: Original title read “Update on Stolen Code from WebGuide4 Used In MediaPortal”.  Changed to reflect known facts and too try and get MediaPortal supporters to answer my questions, instead of avoid and ignore them.  I’ll digress on the code for now.

Published Tuesday, April 03, 2007 5:02 PM by chrisl

Comments

# re: Update on Stolen Code from WebGuide4 Used In MediaPortal

[This should be in response to high, MP Admin, your post was accidentally deleted when it came up twice on my RSS feed.  Feel free to post again, sorry]

Feel free to delete my account anytime.  I don't plan on using MediaPortal anytime soon.

It's pretty lame forum policy that you have to have an "official" site to link to it from the forum.

I really don't care if you trust me or not.  It's not my work in question here.  It's MP's "work" vs. Doug's real work.  You guys have shown that you apparently feel no need to contact people before using their work.  I find this sad, so go ahead and don't "trust me" but at least I'm not stealing people's work and publishing it as my own.  =)

Tuesday, April 03, 2007 7:27 PM by chrisl

# re: Update on Stolen Code from WebGuide4 Used In MediaPortal

np Chris. Your account was not deleted, just banned for 3 days for insulting a member as 'Nazi'. Maybe you find this funny, I wont.

about link policy: normaly you can link to whatever you want but when it comes to these delicate things it should be clear that we cant need anybody just promoting his blog.  

Face it, your not involved here, its a case between Doug and the mp-webguide author. Post whatever you want here but dont expect that we blindly link to it as a information base for users as long as youre that objective.

Tuesday, April 03, 2007 8:20 PM by high

# re: Update on Stolen Code from WebGuide4 Used In MediaPortal

Thanks, I apologize for that.

What I meant was that you can feel free to delete the account, as I have no need to sign into it again.

Since your an Admin for MediaPortal, how about expressing the need for "the mp-webguide author" to contact Doug.  Better yet, how about having Frodo contact him too.

The great thing about a blog is that you can post on whatever you want, and if I want to be part of the Doug vs. MediaPortal vs. "mp-webguide author" I can be.  :)

BTW, I still find your linking policy lame.  For that reason and the lack of communication MediaPortal as a whole has had with this issue, I will never use or suggest anyone use MediaPortal again.

Tuesday, April 03, 2007 8:28 PM by chrisl

# re: Update on Stolen Code from WebGuide4 Used In MediaPortal

high:

Quote: "Face it, your not involved here, its a case between Doug and the mp-webguide author"

I actually don't agree on this.

This is a case between Doug, the mp-webguide author, AND the Media Portal team, who posted stolen code as part of their project.

And, users who use Media Portal, or recommends Media Portal to others, such as Chris (that should properly be recommendED) is very much part of this too - Media Portal have with this shown that they are willing to do almost about anything to show new features - and I think it's only fair that the users know how the project evolved.

How much of Media Portals other code is "borrowed" from other projects? It makes one think.

Regards,

Brian Binnerup

Wednesday, April 04, 2007 2:01 AM by Brian Binnerup

# re: Update on Stolen Code from WebGuide4 Used In MediaPortal

****Before commenting, remember that no one from MediaPortal has contacted Doug or replied to his e-mails as of 04/04/2007 at 1 pm CST.****

So, before you say they have done everything they can do, they have never contacted Doug about the issue personally.

Wednesday, April 04, 2007 2:16 PM by chrisl

# re: Update on Stolen Code from WebGuide4 Used In MediaPortal

How about posting facts, not just your beliefs? You're accusing them of a crime, what ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty" they "ALLEGEDLY" stole code, you've already convicted them of something. If you want to say they COMMITTED copyright infringement, someone could just as easily say you COMMITTED defamation of character by saying such. Don't accuse people of crimes unless you have the facts straight. Tcode looks 99% different to me, and I AM a programmer.

Wednesday, April 04, 2007 3:49 PM by mike113

# re: Update on Stolen Code from WebGuide4 Used In MediaPortal

mike113, why doesn't MP just clear up the issue by e-mail Doug?  Is that really that hard.  They could have put all of this behind if they had common sense.  Don't come down on Chris for reporting when MP is clearly having a big issue here.

Stick up for people doing the right thing, Chris is.  They stole stuff, end of story.

Wednesday, April 04, 2007 5:01 PM by Jack

# re: Update on Stolen Images from WebGuide4 Used In MediaPortal

Jack,

First of all, we don't know that they still haven't emailed him. Secondly, I see no reason why they have to! Frodo already posted it on the WebGuide forum. Why does it have to be in email too? Is email the apology medium of the web? Why is a PUBLIC apology on a forum less apologetic than a private apology? This way everyone saw him admit guilt, not just Doug. He apologized to the WebGuide community, not just Doug. Remember, it hurt them all. People paid for WebGuide. I'm sure that MP+Webinterface is a formidable competitor. I'm sure some of the WebGuide users wish they had a "free" webguide. So he apologized to them for making it seem as though there was a "free" webguide. I think it's much more manly to apologize in public, in front of everyone, than in a private email to Doug, you don't agree?

Secondly, they admit HTML was stolen, NOT code. They outright deny that. Yet Chris here said it's pretty obvious they did that. If Chris said "WebGuide4 accuses MP of stealing code" I would have said fine. He didn't say that. He said they stole code. Note now, even after he changed the title (thanks for that), he had to throw in a little jab at MP users not answering his questions. Why? Did I steal anything? No. I'm a software user. Why does he have to take a stab at me because he's upset at the MP team? Why do I as a user have to answer any of Chris's questions? If someone's house get's robbed, are the friends of the robber REQUIRED to answer the news media's questions? Of course not! Most will either say "he was a nice guy" or "no comment." Yet, Chris here thinks we have to answer him. No one has to tell him anything. Report the facts, don't insult people! I did nothing to Chris, I did nothing to Doug, nor did any other MP user. Why tak a jab at us? Instead, why doesn't Chris answer our questions? Where are the large code snippets, instead of these 2-3 line functions. Show me 100+ lines of code that are almost identical and I'll believe you. Chris demands answers from the MP users, well we demand answers from him about his accusations.

I'd also like to see this "cover-up" he talks of. Yeah they took down the wiki and stuff, know why? The Wiki contained the copyrighted images! Had they left it up, they'd still be violating Doug's copyrights! So of course they took it down. That's not a cover-up. It's just them doing their best to make sure ALL infringement is stopped before they move on. I applaud them for taking the wiki down, I don't think it's a cover up (they're not idiots, they know about Google cache), I think they were trying to make sure even screenshots of the webinterface containing Doug's images were removed (screenshots still violate copyrights).

Thursday, April 05, 2007 9:38 AM by mike113

# re: Update on Stolen Images from WebGuide4 Used In MediaPortal

That's pretty ludicrous.  You are suggesting the a public apology rules over private?  Did your parents not teach you anything when you were a kid.  The first thing you learn about apologies is that you make them directly to who ever you hurt.

It's crazy to think that a public apology makes up for a provate one, especailly when you compare the projects.  MediaPortal's was a direct rip off's of Dougs.  Whether I can prove stolen code or not, it doesn't take much to see how like they are.  Please read Mashman's comments about porting it, this is the same are stealing code.

And considering Doug asked and question why there has been no private apology you have no valid reason to suggest that there wouldn't of done.  The guy who was stolen from diretly said "Wouldn't it be great if even 1 person from Media Portal contacted me personally (or responded to my emails) to explain, apologize, or just say oops."

Stop trying to cover up based on them doing the right thing.  When the guys says he wants an e-mail, they should e-mail.  When he has e-mailed them, they should return the mail, not ignore of delete it.

In project that is basically a hosted webpage, HTML is code.  It's as much code as C, C++, C#, VB, BASIC, Pascal, Perl, etc.

You're replying at my blog, I can ask you to answer any question I want. :)  Feel free to not, most of these comments are marked as spam anywhere, they will just get deleted.

MediaPortal should reply to Doug and explain what happened.  Code was stolen, be it HTML or any other language.  Images were stolen.

If MediaPortal had replied to Doug days ago, I would be off them stealing.  But considering they are trying to hide and cover up the issue, I will not.

So again, if MediaPortal has nothing to hide, why not contact Doug?  They have e-mails from him in their Inbox.  He has replied to their postings with please return my e-mails.  People who port projects for a living are saying this was a port of WebGuide, which basically means they stole all the code and changed it to fit there application.  They stole images.

Not covering up the issue would include e-mailing Doug with exactly what happened, why it happened, and yet they still have not done this.  It doesn't take more than 5 minutes to write the e-mail, so why haven't they?

Thursday, April 05, 2007 9:55 AM by chrisl

# re: Update on Stolen Images from WebGuide4 Used In MediaPortal

mike113,  it's clear Chris doesn't have the code, it doesn't take a high school education to figure that one out.  how exactly is he going to post code?

Better yet, you assume that stolen code means it’s 100% exact.  That’s not the case at all.  If it was a port as suggested by others, the code will be differently.  It’s modeled after code that they had no right to use, it’s stolen.

GO ahead, prove me wrong.

And if it was not a port, they would have contacted doug as they have nothing to hide.

You guys are eff'in funny.  Stole doesn't mean it's exact.  If you want chris to prove what he says, why not pressure MP into telling doug know the whole story.  That is the only thing that will clear it, yet they refuse to do so

Thursday, April 05, 2007 10:03 AM by Jack

# re: Update on Stolen Images from WebGuide4 Used In MediaPortal

Jack is right, when a project is based around an web page (be it HTML, ASP, etc) that can be considered code.

In this case, chris is right for sure and mike113 addmitted chris is right about stealing of code.

HTML or ASP take just as much time and work, they shape the project, and from a user POV, they are the project.

Case closed, they steal code and images.

Thursday, April 05, 2007 10:20 AM by JasonD

# re: Update on Stolen Images from WebGuide4 Used In MediaPortal

Comments closed until MediaPortal decides to contact Doug and explain their side of the issue.  This is the only way for closure on the issue.

Comments will reopen once I hear from Doug that he was contacted.

Thursday, April 05, 2007 10:28 AM by chrisl