Chris Lanier's Blog

I dugg this article.

Looks like MediaPortal is sort of fessing up. From their website today:

"We've made a big mistake with the web-interface for the tvserver.

As some of you might already have heard, it contains some parts of webguide4. To be clear, these parts are gfx only and NOT code. The reason this happened is because during development we borrowed the gfx layout of webguide4 with the intention to replace all the gfx with MP's own ones before releasing.

Sadly.. we forgot to replace some of the gfx and remove gfx we didnt use.

We would like to apologize to the author of WebGuide4 for this mistake.

http://www.team-mediaportal.com/news/global/webinterface_mistake.html

I use BeyondTV and have enjoyed the access to BeyondTV over the internet. Being able to setup recordings over the internet and my web-enabled phone is a great feature. Manage everything over the internet is something all HTPC PVR's should have so I hope MediaPortal eventually brings this feature, but "borrowing" code is certainly not the right way to do it.

[reply]

PingBack from http://rake.sh/blog/2007/04/03/mediaportal-steals-webguide-mce-code/

I hadn’t heard of MediaPotral before reading this article, although I am a registered user of WebGuide 4.  However, to be fair they haven’t stolen the code.  As Webguide 4 is not open source, presumably, they wouldn’t be able to get their hands on it.  What they have done is copy the design, which while not ideal, isn’t the big deal you’re making it out to be.  The code is where most of the hard work is done.

The code samples are not representative. If I would have to code something like I would come up with nearly the same code line.

What about publishing a whole class of WebGuide4 so we can see that the code was realy stolen?

OK.  Here you go.  Just a sampling of the many coincidences.  

WebGuide:

   Private Sub time_forward_Click(ByVal sender As System.Object, ByVal e As System.EventArgs) Handles time_forward.Click

       Session("grid_start") = CDate(Session("grid_start")).AddMinutes(30)

       Session("grid_end") = CDate(Session("grid_end")).AddMinutes(30)

       loadGrid()

   End Sub

Media Portal:

 protected void idForward_Click(object sender, EventArgs e)

 {

   DateTime now;

   if (Session["currentTime"] == null)

   {

     now = DateTime.Now;

     Session["currentTime"] = now;

   }

   now = (DateTime)Session["currentTime"];

   now = now.AddMinutes(30);

   Session["currentTime"] = now;

   UpdateGuide();

 }

______________________________________________________________

WebGuide:

<a class="recording_list_text"  href="BLOCKED SCRIPTloadInfo('<%# DataBinder.Eval(Container.DataItem, "recording_type")%>','<%# server.HtmlEncode(DataBinder.Eval(Container.DataItem, "id"))%>')">

Media Portal:

td1.InnerHtml = string.Format("<a class=\"recording_list_text\" href=\"BLOCKED SCRIPTloadInfo('recorded','1397')\">\"{0} - \"{1}</a>&nbsp;", rec.Title, rec.Description);

_______________________________________________________________

WebGuide:

Dim list As New ArrayList()

           For Each item As ScheduleItem In items

               If Not recorded Then

                   If item.EndTime.ToLocalTime > Now Then

                       list.Add(New ScheduleEntry(Application, ScheduleEntry.recording_types.scheduled, item, rec, ScheduleEntry.sort_methods.date_asc))

                   End If

               Else

                   list.Add(New ScheduleEntry(Application, ScheduleEntry.recording_types.recorded, item, rec, ScheduleEntry.sort_methods.date_desc))

               End If

           Next

           list.Sort() '(New recordingDateCompareClass(ascending))

Media Portal:

   List<Schedule> allSchedules = new List<Schedule>();

   foreach (Schedule rec in schedules)

   {

     List<Schedule> series = layer.GetRecordingTimes(rec, 14);

     for (int i = 0; i < series.Count; i++)

     {

       allSchedules.Add(series);

     }

   }

   allSchedules.Sort(new SortScheduleOnDateTime(true));

_______________________________________________________________

WebGuide:

<td width="30px">

                   <asp:Label ID="channel_number_label" runat="server" CssClass="grid_channel_num">##</asp:Label></td>

               <td align="left">

                   <nobr><asp:hyperlink id="callsign" runat="server" cssclass="grid_channel" style="cursor:pointer" >Callsign</asp:hyperlink></nobr>

               </td>

Media Portal:

     subTable.InnerHtml = String.Format("<span class=\"grid_channel_num\"  style=\"cursor: pointer\">{0}</span>", nr);

     subTable.InnerHtml += String.Format("<nobr><A class=grid_channel style=\"CURSOR: pointer\" href=\"ShowChannel.aspx?id={0}\">{1}</A></nobr>", channel.IdChannel, channel.Name);

__________________________________________________________________

WebGuide:

           If end_time > grid_end Then

               right_continue.Visible = True

           Else

               right_continue.Visible = False

           End If

Media Portal:

     if (program.EndTime > end)

     {

       addRightContinue = true;

     }

I agree with Christoph, publish the complete class for comparisons as the code is not comparative to a large web based application- the tone and language used in this piece over plays their mistake.

I get the impression from the punctuations that you have enjoyed reporting on this.

you are so cheap ...

PingBack from http://msmvps.com/blogs/chrisl/archive/2007/04/03/749589.aspx

Im just a dumb user...but can someone explain what is here the stolen 'code'? The examples look everything to me but definately not the same. The css-classes sound familiar but thats all? The whole Internet would be closed in this case.

Really strange topic...

so they steal code but not really steal cause it cant be proved but somehow they steal cause you think they do but your not a coder?

Thats not only strange, thats confusing...

Somehow Im with Ian, sounds like someone is enjoying his 15 minutes atm

"If they stole the images, why not steal some code too?"

Thats the dumbest explanation ive heard for a long time. Ok, right behind your strange car example.  

Maybe Im too dumb here too but WebGuide is still fully working, if you have my car...I havnt it. Thats not a small difference, its completly nonsense.

This whole idea of "open-source" licensing and programming needs to come to an end. Why can't these people just take credit for the work they do and admit wrote it and that they own it? These people hide from personal liability behing this GPL stamp, and then claim they arent stealing because they allow all to use it. Write something, prove it is yours, and then if you feel like giving it away, add it to the public domain.

$5 says Jamie is a part of the MP staff.  

How can it stop working when both guides do NOT work on the same system? WebGuide for MCE and Webguide2 for Mediaportal?

Chris, you are argueing like a 5 years old boy.

Why dont you let both teams clear up whats going on instead of posting on and on things you do not even know about? Its obvious that you have no knowledge about coding or what exactly happend.

The way you put yourself into focus here is not better than stealing someones images. Both is lousy.

Looks like a human translation from VB.Net to C#, with some few changes, like changing a bit of logic, variable and control names or using generics.

Doug (and Chris to an extent) are right here.  Media Portal copied Doug's software.  As someone who writes code for a living (although not on Windows), I find this very sickening.

Media Portal used parts of Web Guide, modeled their version after it and forget to remove the parts they used.

Pick whatever word you want, used, borrowed, stole, whatever.  It all means the same in this picutre.

-js

"Why dont you let both teams clear up whats going on instead of posting on and on things you do not even know about?"

Wow.  By teams, I assume you mean Media Portal and me.  Wouldn't it be great if even 1 person from Media Portal contacted me personally (or responded to my emails) to explain, apologize, or just say oops.

"This whole idea of "open-source" licensing and programming needs to come to an end. Why can't these people just take credit for the work they do and admit wrote it and that they own it? These people hide from personal liability behing this GPL stamp, and then claim they arent stealing because they allow all to use it. Write something, prove it is yours, and then if you feel like giving it away, add it to the public domain." - Alex

It is clear to me you know little or nothing about FOSS or the rationale behind it.  Don't go spouting off about things you don't understand, it makes you look dumb.

I agree the posting of someone else's original images in an open source project is stupid if you don't have the rights to them.  Looking at the code though, from what I've seen posted it is at worst a functional copy, but definitely not close enough to get flagged in a source code comparison program.

If you are looking at pursuing this further than is my suggestion, download a source code comparison tool and run both sets through it and see if it spits anything out.  Looking at the size of the project on SF I'm inclined to say the truth probably lies somewhere between some dumb developer not being able to design his own images/ui and someone just not knowing better.  The source code of the only way to know just how far it goes.

At the end of the day at least they aren't trying to sell it.  I'd be pissed if they were trying to sell it.  I'd say work out an arrangement to get some publicity or something out of it, because I really can't see you getting any money out of it.

I think I've about seen enough of the MP supporters saying "What's the big deal?", or "you can't prove it!".

It was blatant theft - Webguides image files were in MP's repository for pete's sake!

And anyone with any coding experience can see that all MP did was port Webguide for MP.

Anyone that thinks - "this is no big deal", well maybe it's not at first. MP is no MCE, they don't have that many users - the danger is the fact that it's OPEN SOURCE!  After MP has it's 'Webinterface' working - what's to keep some enterprising individual from coming along and using the open source Webinterface to create a new product for MCE - which directly competes with Webguide.

I'm ready to suggest we setup a legal fund so that Doug can pursue legal avenues.

Im sick of the MP guys saying "its fine".  It is one thing to stick up for someone, but stop being ignorant.  They took something, doesn't matter what.  They have no talked to the guy they took it from.

Is that really hard to understand?  Maybe we all need to go back to first grade and hear the lesson on saying sorry to someone for taking their toy away from them.  My kids got the lesson a few weeks ago, maybe you guys need the same.

As a programmer for 7 years, the code looks different to me. Show a full class (not a method) and I'm sure we'll see differences. Also, don't cherry pick a section of code that is bound to be similar. I mean a function that adds a ... at the end, I have a function I wrote long before WebGuide existed that is 99% the same code, doesn't mean Doug stole it from me, it is just such a simple task everyone will do it the same way! Show a full class and then we'll know for sure.

How about having MP respond.  If they really didn't steal it why have they not?  Someone please answer this.

First, I am a systems architect, I have been programming for nearly 20 years, and in my current position I develop middle tier thin/fat clients to mainframe backends.

I have a LOT of experience in designing/developing thin client applications, and have ported applications to various architectures many times.  And I'm 100% certain that what happened is that Webguide4 has been ported.  

I'll explain why.

When you port a system, you go thru the code and rewrite it to the new architecture.  While you're going thru, you remove (temporarily, or permanently) code that contains functionality that is unneeded or you may what to address later.  

But the first objective is to get it running.  Things like additional functionality, and changes to the UI wait till later.  So, the first initial version would always be a subset of the initial system, you never (or shouldn't) try to add functionality during the initial port, but removing functionality is very common.

This is why I'm certain what I've seen is a port - if you compare the screens (and please don't comment that the screens are gfx, it's ASP, it's dynamic, the "code" is what creates the screens), there is a lot of functionality that's not been included in the port, but this is what's important - WHAT IS THERE IS IDENTICAL.  

One think that is a global constant with programmers, is that they have ego's and love to prove how good they are by improving upon others work.  Why are there no improvements?  Show me one element on MP's version that improves upon Webguide4.  There are none - the first rule of porting, until you have the port working, don't add any functionality.

The comments about seeing whole classes, I don't think that's necessary, after a port from one language to another the code won't look identical.  What you should see after a port is similar, or identical functional organization - so a comparison of functional diagrams would be helpfull.

Mash

Mashman,

Yes the gfx are generated by the code, that doesn't mean they stold the code though. It's like saying the screwdriver you stole is manufactured by a fabricating machine, therefore, you stole the fabricating machine, not a screwdriver.

They *may* have stolen the code, but the fact that they GUI looks the same (the output) does not mean the process used to generate that GUI is the same. THey may have gone to a webguide4 site and copyed all the HTML, it doesn't mean they copied the ASP.NET code (it's ASP.NET, not ASP, by the way).

Also Mashman, since you say MP's webinterface had no improvements, I assume you mean you have run it right? Meaning you're not just basing it on the few screenshots posted here, right? THe functionality I've seen is the basics. It's the "guide" and "record" features. Of course they'd do that first! If you're starting a new car company, do you come up with a design for your new sound system first? Or for an engine and brake system? You have to get the essential features working before adding bells and whistles. Had some of WebGuide's "extra" features been included (e.g. streaming video, etc.) they I would agree. But what we see here is a program that is a "web interface for a EPG" is it so strange that it includes a "view EPG" and an "add new recording" feature? MSN Remote Record has the same features too. Did Doug steal it from them, then add all the fancy features? Of course not. It's the basic functionality of the application!

Btw, remember one thing. When you port an app, I'm assuming you do it legally (i.e. making your company's product work under a new vendor system, etc.). This would (if true) be a case of illegal porting. I doubt they would have made it so blatantly obvious if that were the case. Any idiot could see it looked like WebGuide4. If they wanted to hide a crime, they would have done it better. I can't imagine the MP team is that dumb...