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File Format/Codec Support Very Important in Convergence Devices - Chris Lanier's Blog

File Format/Codec Support Very Important in Convergence Devices

Ben at EngadgetHD asks if people want PC’s in their livings rooms, seeing as HP just dropped their HTPC-line I posed the question this morning.

The first commenter on EngadgetHD replied to Ben’s notion that “most people want their home theater experiences to be drop dead simple” with “I think that's what TiVo does. It handles limited formats, but that's all "most people" need.”

This is a critical problem that most people don’t seem to understand.  Limited formats is not “all most people need,” in fact, they need the exact opposite.  The problem with all of these devices is that they can’t play the random files people download online.  I’m not talking about pirated content, just the little stupid clips that have now made YouTube and Google Video what they are.  And while they are starting to overtake online video, there is still a ton of video in dozens of other codec’s and file formats out there.

This is a huge problem!  People don’t care how the video is encoded, they just want to play it.  Right now, they can’t do this.  The Xbox 360 supports limited formats.  TiVo (HMO) supports limited formats.  Apple TV supports limited formats.  Despite these companies’ ideas and concepts that limited codec support is all people need, it is the first way to kill your product from ever being popular (v1 Extenders would have been a hell of a lot more popular had they supported other formats, I guarantee it).

All of these devices need to be able to decode as many formats as possible to make the user experience better and more integrated.  The concept of these devices is that you can play the content on your PC in your living room.  Right now if I download some random DivX clip I can’t play it on the Xbox 360.  I can’t play it on a TiVo (HMO).  I can’t play it on Apple TV.  All of these devices have failed to do what the average consumer is buying them for.

If any of these companies want to push a good solution, it needs to support as many codec’s as possible.  And before someone replies with that fact that you can use Transcode 360 or like, that’s not the point.  Out-of-box video playback play is.  We can hack almost anything and get it to play the content, but that’s no way to move into the average consumer’s home.  XMBC is a great solution, but telling people to go rent a specific Xbox title to soft-mod their Xbox is not.  Telling people that to play XviD on Apple TV you have to strip it down to OS X underneath is not either.

Support as many file formats and codec’s as possible in your devices and have a much better chance of making it into my living room.  For Microsoft specially, it would be nice to have a product that lives up to the “Media Center Extender” name.  You know, actually being able to “extend” the Media Center options I have no my PC!

No devices will be able to support all the codec’s in the word, there are just too many of them.  However, you must support the following in your product at both SD and HD resolutions.  MPEG-1, MPEG-2, WMV7, WMV8, WMV9 (VC-1), MPEG-4 ASP (DivX, XviD, Nero Digital), MPEG-4 AVC (H.264).

Now, it’s worth saying that there are a few devices out there that play most, if not all, of these formats.  However, I choose to include Xbox 360 (Media Center Extender), TiVo HMO, and Apple TV because these are integrated solutions.  Other standalone devices generally have a lackluster UI which also kills the consumer experience.

Published Friday, March 30, 2007 12:52 PM by chrisl

Comments

# Drop Dead simple

Not sure if I agree with you on this one Chris.

Drop dead simple doesn't mean supports all codecs. Sure there are a few you really need to support like MPEG2 and a next gen codec like h.264, but downloading an Xvid off the Internet is beyond the capability of most users. Sure the people that read your site and EHD want the codec support you describe, but not joe 6-pack.

I think what people want is what Apple has promised with the Apple TV. Plug it in, connect to iTunes and buy media. It doesn't get any easier than that, sure it gets cheaper, but not easier. The Xbox360 also does a pretty good job of this if you can find the media and work through the points system. (Good luck explaining it to your mom)

The big miss by Apple is the requirement to use iTunes, sure iPod owners are used to it, but most would just like to have a Apple TV, with an all you can eat plan and do nothing but pay the monthly bill, ohh wait, they have that it's called VOD. But the real opportunity is to offer a all you can eat VOD service without any monthly obligation, but we both know that will probably never happen.

The bottom line we agree on, no one wants to have to understand what a codec is. they just want to watch what they want, when they want.

Friday, March 30, 2007 1:42 PM by Ben Drawbaugh

# re: File Format/Codec Support Very Important in Convergence Devices

You might not agree that people have content in these formats, but I have a collection of WMP help articles hosted here all about codec's and file formats.  People have this content, I can assure you of that.  Just to get a basic info, one of my articles covers AVI playback in Windows (need a specific codec for most).  It's got over 500,000 views alone.  All the articles combined have web views over 3 million.  People have this content, and 3 million of them have been here to find out about problems playing it back.  That's just here, I'm not counting on information on Microsoft's webpages and such.  Whether it be XviD, DivX, VP6, H.264, etc.  There is a TON of random content out there that people download.

I Mom uses an Xbox to manage her media, mostly just TV however.  :)  Works for her just fine, I never touch it.

And then you can also look at the people who already have these devices.  We get threads almost everyday at The Green Button about Media Center Extender's not being able to play their AVI files.

BTW, It's my opinion that all of these devices will have a small market in general.  None will overtake the classic cable/sat box, and none will replace watching the majority of content on PC's.  You have to appeal to the market that already wants to move their content into the living room, and these people have this content in third party file formats not supported in these devices.

Friday, March 30, 2007 1:54 PM by chrisl

# re: File Format/Codec Support Very Important in Convergence Devices

I used to have the same mindset and still run a dedicated Media Center HTPC because of this, but I think the future is moving towards real-time transcoding. This needs to become less of a hack (in the case of the Xbox 360) and more of a common component of Windows. I think Nero has the idea with their MediaHome UPNP server that's (strangely) a part of the Nero 7 burning suite. It can stream ANY file to ANY UPNP device because it transcodes it to whatever formats the client device understands. Why doesn't WMP or MCE do this?

Leave the codec madness up to the media server box and let the simple-minded client devices receive their stream in standard MPEG format. That's the smart solution if you ask me. Supposedly Intel's Viiv is doing the transcoding thing too, but I still don't think anyone knows what the hell Viiv is. Why keep re-inventing the wheel when this technology should all just be integrated into Windows/Media Center?

And while we're at it, Softsled, anyone?.........

Friday, March 30, 2007 3:06 PM by Matthew Flook

# re: File Format/Codec Support Very Important in Convergence Devices

No doubt that wide format support is important for anyone who knows what MPEG2 is.

I was talking about a mass market product, which is what the Xbox360 is for games and both it and the Apple TV want to be for media in general.

Friday, March 30, 2007 3:55 PM by Ben Drawbaugh

# re: File Format/Codec Support Very Important in Convergence Devices

Have to agree 100% with you, Chris. Wider codec support is something I've been shouting about for quite some time now, but to no avail. I was terribly disappointed with X360, as MS's pre-launch hype painted it as an all-singing, all-dancing media center. The reality turned out something entirely different. (MS's Amir M. gave me a good explanation about the situation, but I won't make it public without Amir's consent.)

As there doesn't seem to be any suitable CE devices in the horizon either, I'm actually placing my hopes on PlayStation 3. One Sony exec has made some remarks about Sony aiming to make PS3 a proper media player with support for a wide variety of file formats. However, he made no comment on when that will be happening.

Real-time transcoding? No thanks. I've got 10TB of data residing on RAID-5 arrays, capable of streaming data directly to media players without the help of a PC. The point is that if I buy a media player, it must be able to play whatever I throw at it without the need for a "helper" PC in between. Isn't that what I paid for? If I need to have a PC running somewhere, I might just as well build a HTPC and use that as a media player - but I don't want to go that route.

Off-topic: Chris, it's funny how some of your posts coincide with mine. For example, some time ago you wrote a rant about HDMI 1.3 - and I had written a very similar rant about HDMI 1.3 in my blog just a couple of days earlier. No, I'm not saying you're reading my blog (it's in Finnish, so how could you?); it's just amusing how we seem to get riled up about the same things simultaneously on opposite sides of the planet!

Saturday, March 31, 2007 7:39 AM by Petri Teittinen

# Why Transcoding is Here to Stay » ReWinD

Saturday, March 31, 2007 11:58 AM by Why Transcoding is Here to Stay » ReWinD

# open codec support is too expensive

The point that I think you are missing is that supporting a wider variety of codecs would push the price point of these media devices far past what most would be willing to pay for a consumer electronics box. I wrote the rest of my thoughts on my blog here...

http://www.dodd.org/blog/2007/03/why-transcoding-is-here-to-stay/

Saturday, March 31, 2007 11:58 AM by weldon

# Chris Lanier's Blog : Is Transcoding is Here to Stay?

Saturday, March 31, 2007 12:33 PM by Chris Lanier's Blog : Is Transcoding is Here to Stay?

# re: File Format/Codec Support Very Important in Convergence Devices

Agreed completely.  Tired of having to manage all of this myself...

Want to play that AVI video on your Tivo?  Use Videora Tivo Converter to do that.  Oops it doesn't support flash or .mp4 files or ...

I have so many video conversion programs/utilities now its getting ridiculous.

As far as the codecs though, you obviously left out flash, which may not look very good on a big TV, but its what YouTube and all sorts of other similar sites use so its unavoidable.

Not sure MPEG-1 is exactly commonplace anymore though...

The priorities for me would be:

- MPEG-2 (plus DVR-MS plus .tivo)

- DivX

- XviD

- AVC

- MPEG-4 ASP

- Flash

WMV wouldn't make the cut currently, nor would MPEG-1.  Not that I'd mind either being included.  The Google Video wrapper would be nice to support...

Glenn

Tuesday, April 03, 2007 8:18 PM by Glenn

# ReWinD Blog » Why Transcoding is Here to Stay

Pingback from  ReWinD Blog » Why Transcoding is Here to Stay

Friday, November 07, 2008 1:06 PM by ReWinD Blog » Why Transcoding is Here to Stay