Chris Lanier's Blog

Thanks for the article!  That lays things out pretty clear for MCE and possibly (ahem, likely...) consumer devices in the future.

Sad thing is, ICT is an artificial limitation.  This will cripple the next generation of HD for users.  540p, come on!  If wishing to output Component, why not offer 720p as a "low end HD" compromise?  Understandably, this is not Microsoft's restriction or decision.  MS is just following the restriction.  Thing is, certain home-enthusiasts have, and wish to keep, video scalers where Component is the best or only option available.  That investment would become a hindrance in terms of HD DVD and Blu Ray.  Again, it's not MS' decision. :)

DivX is neat, but the video quality and compression-technique isn't always as stunning as HD DVD or Blu Ray.  That, and DivX support is not ubiquitous on consumer devices, which are still found in many homes (i.e., second bedrooms, etc.) operating MCE.

Cheers,

Carl Rogers

Calrog.com, http://www.calrog.com :

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An integrated media arm in Turn-of-the-Century PC Development, International Highway Research, and Interpersonal Psychology.  Has served your home country and ninety-four of its worldwide neighbours since 2000, through

Internet downstream and published works.

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True, but Murphy's Law prescribes that ICT-protected movie will be the one that that individual wants.  :-)

I'm not trying to stir the pot here chris but what output do you get out of DVI/HDMI if ICT is NOT set and HDCP is NOT supported (either on the Video card or the CRT/LCD)?

Thanks. This is greatly appreciated.

Carl, DivX support is certainly more common on consumer devices than you seem to realize.  There are far more players in use today that support DivX than Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.

What worries me is what happens to, say, your DVI / VGA outputs while you're playing a HD-DVD or Blu-ray ... and for that matter the audio too.

Anyone willing to put up a grid of how this compares to running these scenarios under Linux or Apple?  I see a lot of people saying that not only are they *not* going to upgrade they are going to use Linux or Apple instead.

My gut says that the scenarios under Linux or Apple are the same if not worse but it would be nice to have real facts so peope that jump ship don't arrive on one that's not any better.

"If you have DVI or HDMI without HDCP (ICT set or not), you don't get any video output."

Meaning that 90% of the market (guesstimate) can't watch HD DVD/Blu-ray movies on their computers. At all. Nice.

And I thought you were supposed to set things right and dissolve all those bad rumours. Turns out that the situation is worse than anyone could think of.

Sorry Chris, my question was a little off now that I read it back, but you pretty much answered my question. I was just thinking along the lines of checking my mail on my LCD while playing a Blu-ray via HDCP. Or playing music via my sound card outputs while the HDCP is playing the movie sound.

Chris,

All of these restrictions for HD-DVD & Blue-ray DVD are similiar whether using Vista or XP. No big changes. You didn't mention the video restrictions as they relate to HDTV in Vista though, specifically the following scenarios using CableCard in Vista Media Center...

Is it true that, unlike a set-top box, all live/recorded HD video will be downrezzed if your monitor is connected using either VGA or component cables?

Is it also true that, unlike in Media Center 2005, burning ANY recorded TV show to DVD is prohibited?

And finally, a situation like mine where I currently record every episode of Lost in HD using MCE2005, edit out the commercials, and archive the seasons. If I simply move forward with Microsoft and retire my HP z558 for a new Vista Media Center PC with CableCard, I would no longer be able to record and edit out the commercials of each episode of Lost anymore?

Also, thanks for your informative blog. You find and explain so much Media Center info that other sources don't seem to pay enough attention to.

Alex

@Alex - I've burned recorded TV to DVD from my Vista Media Center. There is one major difference between XP and Vista: it works!

In my experience, an export to DVD from within Media Center was very hit and miss with XP. Microsoft have done a far better job this time.

I think a lot of people are confusing the Cable Card restrictions - that are out of Microsoft's hands - with excessive use of DRM within Vista.

"No, it doesn't mean that at all.  If your PC doesn't have VGA, you shouldn't even be thinking about playing DVD's of any sort.  ;)"

erm. Most graphics card thesedays do not have VGA (HD-15), what they have is usually 1 or more DVI connection. And the current displays? 19" TFT with either VGA or DVI connection. (VGA in europe due to tax issue) Thing is, most people still use either straight DVI or DVI to VGA connectors to connect to the display - but if the DVI doesn't support HD DVD, the adapter won't change a thing.

So please, do explain me why I can't watch HD DVD movies on my Viewsonic vp2030b display that I bought last year. (It wasn't cheap either) I guess I could try to find a PCI-E graphics card that still has VGA output and use the secondary input on this monitor.

It just seems like the "Content owners" really want users to pirate their stuff. Cos at least that way, everything works as it should.

"las6: Based on what I have seen personally, most video cards are still shipping with a VGA port.  Those shipping with dual DVI, have HDCP support." Well that is totally different from my experiences. What I see are cards like my 7900 GS that ship with dual DVI and NO HDCP support. Actually from the 6 7900 GS cards that I know of, only one supports HDCP. (one would think that 7900 GS would be ideal for a HTPC like machine..especially as fanless versions are available)

The only option for me really is to pirate all the HD media as I don't think I will be buying a new monitor in a long, long time. (just check the specs on that display).

Funny thing - I will still be buying Vista. So *Only* "content owners" lose money. And it's their own damn fault. So what was the intended effect of this system in the first place? "Reduce the amount of piracy and thus increase sales of the HD movies"? This will have quite the opposite effect, if you ask me.

Now the real question I have is (btw thanks for the clarification chris), Will the VGA Adapters for Dual DVI port cards work allow output.

Technically I'd say Yes. Since the is no magic going on inside the adpater, the 4 pins around flat/wide pin of the DVI connector carry an Analog signal. The VGA adapter simply changes the pin configuration to that of DB15 VGA.

But, in reality I have a strong suspision that the entire DVI port, not just the digital portion, is disabled when showing HD content...

Truth be told I've know about this issue since I first started reading about HDCP almost 2 years ago. Everyone that bought those nice, big, and cheap LCDs from Dell middle of last year, are going to be quite upset...

PingBack from http://itsvista.com/2007/01/links-for-2007-01-27/

What about offloading recorded Cablecard content to a personal media player?  I haven't done it in XP but I believe that functionality is allowed?  

Need clarification on CableCARD recording!:

Cable providers are required by law to carry local HD channels, whether you subscribe to their CableCARD service or not.  (A "Clear QAM" tuner is required to recieve these signals.)

For Vista CableCARD MCE users, will ALL channels recorded be protected by DRM?  Specifically, will the local HD channels that they have to carry for free be protected?

On my TV, if I do not have my CableCARD installed, I can receive the local HD channels through cable.  However, once I install the CableCARD it remaps these local channels to cable channel numbers.  I am worried that this will mean the Vista will apply DRM, even though it shouldn't...

I guess my question is - if using a CableCARD, is it ALL channels that are then protected???  Or only the ones that "should" be?

PingBack from http://vista.technoreality.com/2007/01/26/what-content-will-be-crippled-when-output-in-vista/

PingBack from http://bit-torrent.xfinfo.org/article/658749/What-Content-Will-Be-Crippled-When-Output-in-Vista/

Your article, despite complaining about less than accurate media reporting, is itself rather misleading.

Yes, you are right in that there are few differences between XP and Vista.

However, you completely gloss over the really big problem with the AACS requirements. An unencrypted digital output is not one of the allowed output formats for AACS encrypted content. If, like many computers sold today, your computer uses DVI without HDCP you won't be able to play AACS encrypted content. At all. Whether ICT is set or not is irrelevant (ICT only applys to analog outputs).

The only way around this is to switch to VGA, which is not a great solution for the obvious reasons.

I would like to thank you for clearing this up. I am a Linux/Mac user so this won't really affect me until the market for Vista takes off and I have to support it, but it is nice to know the situation is not as bad as once thought. I see Microsoft moving in a new direction, which hopefully is a more honest one. I think you should now explain why you impose some (albeit small at this point) restrictions. If it wasn't an internal Microsoft decision, tell us which consortium/industry lobby wanted these features. Theb if consumer backlash occurs (which I think frankly, is inevitable) you can at least say it wasn't your fault, but you had these conditions imposed on you. Microsoft could take on the media companies, but I think that may be too bold a direction at this point somehow.

Neil Grogan

http://www.dueyfinster.eu

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I am a little bit confused. You mean that vista will prevent HD video playback on DVI-D but not on VGA db15 and (maybe DVI-A).

Playing a HD content with 1080p/i or 720p/i on VGA will be far better than a 480p/i on DVI-D.

Industry push DVI-D claiming that it's really better than VGA. That is laughable. If it's true they are ridiculous.

Justkeep an "old" computer to install vista or even XP for HD DVD playback on VGA.

Just so I am clear, are there two sets of rules in Vista for HD output...one for HD-DVD/BR-DVD and one for CableCard recorded HDTV?

You mention that Vista will allow HD-DVD output over VGA or component cable to a monitor, as long as the ICT is not set on a title. However, that same monitor will not be able to display HDTV content over the VGA/Component cable, even if the cable-equivalent of the ICT is not set. This must be a mistake, as my Scientific Atlanta DRV is able to display through both VGA and component connections with no loss in resolution. Am I missing something?

PingBack from http://www.hxbro.com/2007/01/31/vista-crippled-drm-output/

Chris, CableLabs seems to be taking the brunt of the blame for the crippling effects that Vista may have on user's HD video. In reality, Microsoft simply has let the ball drop with their implementation of the CableLabs requirements. CableLabs does NOT require that all content recorded using a CableCard be protected; regardless, the Microsoft content protection method will apply encryption to all recorded content. Microsoft could have avoided this if they had taken the effort to design a system that only applied encryption to content flagged as requiring protection. The same applies to burning content to DVD. CableLabs does not prohibit this, only on content purposely flagged to prohibit copying. Microsoft's implementation however, will prohibit Vista users from burning their CableCard recorded programs to DVD.

For comparison, take a look at the Scientific Atlanta MCP-100 DVR/DVD Recorder. Vista Media Center's PVR functions should be able to match any ability the MCP-100 has, as this device complies with all CableLabs requirements while allowing users more freedom than Vista.

Chris...Your interpretation of CableLabs' requirements defies common sense. Why would the CP specs incorporate and respect the various flagged states of content, including the "copy-freely" state, if there was no intention to allow that content to be accessible?

PingBack from http://microsoft.blognewschannel.com/archives/2007/02/01/take-windows-vista-search-to-the-next-level/

PingBack from http://corehd.com/blog/2007/02/08/news-and-updates-from-the-drm-front/

PingBack from http://www.latentsemanticindexing.co.uk/01/take-vista-search-to-the-next-level/

Noticed that there is convenient double negative in the OEM compliance letter to CableLabs. Looks like OEMs that sign the compliance letter will be required to break copy protection ;)

Check it out:

http://www.opencable.com/downloads/MCE_HMS_Compl

iance_Letter.pdf

Section 5:

Except as provided in Section 6 of this Compliance Letter, each MCE HMS of the model identified aot shall be at the time of manufacture be compliant with the Agreement and as manufactured and and distributed, no feature or functionality of MCE HMS shall (a) technically disrupt, impede, or impair the delivery of services to a cable customer; (b) cause physical harm to the network of the CableCARD; (c) facilitate theft of server or otherwise interfere with reasoable actions taken by cable operators to prevent theft of service; (d) jeopardize the security of the any services offered of the cable system; or (e) interfere of disable the ability of the a cable operator to communicate or disable a CableCARD or MS OCUR or to disable services being transmitted through a CableCARD or MS OCUR. Futher, Company shall not <b>shall not</b> intentionally provide, promote, or distribute subsequent modifications, upgrades, downloads, modules or plug-ins to the MCE HMS that defeat this requirement.

Something that I personally find hilarious is that DefectiveByDesign, the Anti-DRM Group that was formed