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My Thoughts on Apple TV - Chris Lanier's Blog

My Thoughts on Apple TV

I’ve already said that Apple TV Sucks and I stand by that.  This is not the product that I was expecting Apple to put out.  This is the first time I’ve really covered an Apple made product here.  I’ve owned an iPod in the past (2G), but had problems with the battery and exchanged it for a iRiver H120.  Never looked back, but the iPod is still at the top of the list for digital audio palyers and I think everyone knows why.  Apple has great marketing, they make great products, they have die hard followers, and most of all their products just work.  I’m not one to trash Apple on most things, the things I do trash them on (such as not licensing FairPlay) are even stupidly followed by other companies, most recently Microsoft with the Zune (and how much do I talk about Zune?)  Getting back to Apple TV, this product is trash.

The 720p Experience
Most of the comments that I’m reading about Apple TV have to do with 720p.  Why 720p when everyone else is going for 1080p?  I’m not sure most people understand this issue, and most just see the smaller number and go off about it.

When talking about HDTV one of the most argued things is that 720p can rival 1080i/p.  If 720p is done good, this is very true.  I’m sure that there are several reasons that Apple went with 720p, and it should be noting that 720p is the maximum Apple TV can decode H.264 at.  Apple TV can output at 1080i without any problems via Component and HDMI.  There are a lot of people out there reading 720p as the maximum output resolution which isn’t true.

The most interesting thing I have seen here is the amount of people saying 720p is all you need, and that the lack of 1080p support is fine by them.  That’s odd, because with both the Xbox 360 and PS3 this was all anyone cared about.  Just sayin it’s strange, that’s all.

H.264 at 720p can deliver great video quality, but it all depends on the bitrate chosen by Apple.  One thing I was disappointed to see is that it only supports Main Profile and not High Profile.  High Profile would have given a nice boost when and if Apple starts encoding iTunes Store content at higher resolutions.

iTunes Store or Bust and Lack of PVR Support
It seems to me that Apple TV was really made for those who purchase content from the iTunes Store.  If you don’t, then Apple TV provides no additional features from the large number of devices that have been out for years.

I’ve seen lots of comments from people who do purchase from the iTunes Store, attempting to compare it to a PVR.  This is exactly what Apple would like.  I can understand the benefit of the iTunes Store if you are a very casual TV watcher, but if you really watch and keep up with an entire series, it’s cheaper in most cases to pay for either Cable or Satellite.  In fact, I would bet that the majority of people purchasing TV shows from the iTunes Store are already paying for either Cable or Satellite.

Since TV shows from iTunes don’t have commercials this has also been a point that has been brought up.  I guess if you are really looking for content without commercials, iTunes is the best option.  However, I don’t see a problem pressing fast forward four times to get through them.  Or, if you are using a PC PVR there are several applications to remove commercials automatically or even record without commercials.  For use Media Center users, DVRMSToolbox does a great job of this.  Best thing about it, no user interaction needed.

I just can’t bring myself to buy from the iTunes Store.

Limited Expandability
There are several devices that have been out for years that have a USB port on the back, v1 Extenders come to mind again.  Just as those were never used for anything it doesn’t look like Apple TV users will get anything out of it either.  Ars Technica reports that the USB ports are basically useless, used only for “service reasons.”  That means no external PVR (on the Apple TV end at least) and that means no additional external storage.

Oh, It Will Be Better In v2
No matter whose products you support, this is kind of a common thing.  Where I see this being different is along the lines of the 1080p question above, instead of seeing people attack it as much, they just shrug it off and say it will get better with v2.  I wonder what the comments would have been if Microsoft was the one to release Apple TV?  Wait, they already did in the form of Media Center Extenders.  Too limited, not cheap enough for what you get, etc.  v1 Extenders where just this, v1.5 (Xbox 360) got a better but it’s yet to be perfect.  If companies will get around to releasing v2 Extenders, we get to see if we are going to get “it will get there next version” or if we will finally see extended file format support (which is really the only problem, other than HDMI which we know will be there).

Apple TV vs. Xbox 360
You can purchase an Xbox 360 Core for the same price as Apple TV ($299).  That doesn’t include a hard drive; however you can use it to connect to both Windows XP Media Center Edition and Windows Vista.  Using the Media Center Extender functions, you get access to all of your music, videos, and photos.  While you can’t playback anything purchased from the iTunes Store, you do get extended file format support (mainly MPEG-2) and the added ability to have PVR support (OTA HD, Analog, CableCARD w/ new Vista PC) and even a DVD Jukebox. 

If you don’t have Media Center, you can still access the media on your machine using Windows Media Connect.

For $100 more, you can get the Xbox 360 Premium ($399) and access the Xbox Live! Marketplace which is providing HD Downloads already in addition to access Media Center and/or Windows Media Connect.  The hard drive is half the size (20GB) so it doesn’t work the exact same.  You are still lock into a single download service using this method, but again using Media Center you can have access to several others including Movielink and Cinemanow.

Bottom Line
Other than Apple TV connecting to a Mac and supporting content from the iTunes Store, I see no reason to consider it as an option with so many other media devices out there.  For hardcore Apple fans, it’s a must purchase just for the hell of it.  For anyone who has purchased it, I would be interested in your thoughts once you get it in your hands.

Published Thu, Jan 11 2007 9:40 by chrisl

Comments

# iTunes Marketplace?

I think you meant the down-loadable movie content on xbox live, right?

"For $100 more, you can get the Xbox 360 Premium ($399) and access the iTunes Marketplace which is providing HD Downloads already in addition to access Media Center and/or Windows Media Connect."

Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:19 AM by Northruption

# re: My Thoughts on Apple TV

Opps!  Thanks for the catch.  Edited.

Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:21 AM by chrisl

# re: My Thoughts on Apple TV

Also just in case people dont realize it. An 360 can stream content from Mac's. If you have other types of content that Windows Media Connect or Media Center doesnt support with the 360 you can use TVersity to transcode content on the fly for the 360.

Suffice it to say compared to a 360 Apple TV is like an 8 track player.

Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:11 AM by Keith Franklin

# re: My Thoughts on Apple TV

I couldn't agree more. And when you include the power that MCML will bring to Vista Media Center the inadequacy of Apple TV becomes even greater.

See http://thunor.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!71C238B5E0E3724D!157.entry

Thursday, January 11, 2007 12:09 PM by DWAnderson

# re: My Thoughts on Apple TV

It's funny that Apple can release something as weak as Apple TV and roughly at the same time they can release something as exciting as the iPhone.

Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:01 PM by Aaron

# re: My Thoughts on Apple TV

Chris, being both an Apple fanboy *and* an MCE fanboy, I have to agree with you. I feel let down by Apple. They have in past done such a great job assessing the market and understanding the core feature set that will appeal to the masses and create very popular products (many of which I own or have owned). I just can't understand who the AppleTV is supposed to appeal to -- people who want to watch pixellated DRM'd movies and TV shows from the iTunes Store on their 50" HDTV? I think it will mainly appeal to folks who have little to no experience with *any* kind of PVR/DVR or home media center technology. If they've used TiVo, MCE, MythTV, SageTV, or BeyondTV, they won't be very interested in this product with its current limitations.

And you've nailed it -- As always, I am fairly certain that there will be a V2 that will probably nail it, but it's so far behind MCE/Vista/Pika that they're really playing a catch-up game.

I truly hope they do it, however, because I am getting fed up with Microsoft's lack of support for various popular encoding technologies in the extenders (as you've opined before). I'm annoyed at having to use Transcode360 as much as I do!

Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:16 PM by Larry McQueary

# re: My Thoughts on Apple TV

If it passes the wifey sniff test (aka-- stays up 24/7) it will make it. My wife made me get rid of MCE on the living room because it wasn't stable enough.

Whether or not it does all the things that MCE can do doesnt matter.  

regarding 1080i-- its a non factor, go into best buy and count the number of sets that only handle up to 720p.  the general public is happy with this resolution. (even if its not the best resolution thats available).

Friday, January 12, 2007 8:42 AM by Marty

# re: My Thoughts on Apple TV

I agree with everything you've said about Apple TV, BUT, my big problem is that I haven't found another solution that I'm happy with.

Streaming to my XBOX 360 is nice (I don't have media center), but look at the drawbacks.

- No album art with music.

- If you stop watching a video you have to start at the beginning.  (Terrible for movies).

- Will only stream WMA videos.

Ultimately I think streaming media to a TV will always have tons of limitations.  Connecting a small PC to a TV is more expensive but a better solution.  Maybe someday if Media Center supports Directv, I might try to put something together.

Friday, January 12, 2007 2:41 PM by Al Nyden

# re: My Thoughts on Apple TV

I agree with many of your points, but I'll point out that you can add any movie to your iTunes library - it's not limited to content you've purchased through iTunes. And with a (Mac) droplet called Movie2iTunes it can be pretty much any file type.

The Droplet accepts mov, mpg, mpeg, mp4, avi, wmv, swf files. A file reference in the QuickTime media link format is created (about 2 KB per movie) and the reference file is then added to the iTunes library.

I'm sure there is a Windows equivalent.

The big questions for me are:

1. Can I stream videos from my computer, or do I have to transfer them to the 33GB (usable) Apple TV HD first? I haven't seen a definitive answer to this.

2. Can I mount the Apple TV hard drive on my computer to manually add codecs, even if it requires a hack?

If the answer to both is 'yes' then this thing is just what I've been waitng for. If not, forget it.

Saturday, January 13, 2007 9:18 PM by isotonic

# re: My Thoughts on Apple TV

I agree with you Chris that the Apple TV is not as good as the Xbox 360 when comparing them as a total end solution. The Xbox 360 with IPTV, Media Center extender abilities, and the Xbox Live Marketplace is a better solution. But the Apple TV might meet the entry level media extender market that the Xbox 360 might not be able to get i.e. non-gameing HDMI loving techies

Sunday, January 14, 2007 10:55 AM by Tim Coyle

# re: My Thoughts on Apple TV

"Using the Media Center Extender functions, you get access to all of your music, videos, and photos.  While you can’t playback anything purchased from the iTunes Store, you do get extended file format support (mainly MPEG-2) and the added ability to have PVR support (OTA HD, Analog, CableCARD w/ new Vista PC) and even a DVD Jukebox."

Wait a minute - did you say DVD Jukebox?

I used to own a Sony XL1 Digital Living System, which had a 200 disc DVD jukebox.  There was no way to serve those DVD's over the network.

Are you saying that with Vista MCE running on a XL1, XL2 or XL3, I would be able to watch DVD's loaded in the jukebox on a XBox360?

Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:58 PM by Brad

# re: My Thoughts on Apple TV

I agree with you Chris.  I just don't see what is worth the $299 for Apple TV.  It's a TV device without the TV functionality...

http://brentevans.blogspot.com/2007/03/apple-tv-i-dont-get-it.html

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:07 PM by Brent Evans