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My Thoughts on Windows Home Server - Chris Lanier's Blog

My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

Lots of talk about Windows Home Server (WHS) so far, and it was only announced a few days ago.  I have to say that I’m extremely excited about this product, even with the few Media Center downfalls that it seems to have.

First of all, I’m not a big fan of Network Attached Storage (NAS).  In general, I think it’s a waste.  I’ve always felt that I can do the exact same thing a NAS does on my standard PC running Windows XP Media Center.  Windows XP will share folders, and you are redirect shares in Windows with just a few clicks.  I’ve spent time playing with different NAS software, even building a distro of Linux from scratch and building an XPe image to do the same.  Again, ever used them and forgot about them now.

Enter Windows Home Server.  From what we know so far, this product has changed my opinion on NAS-type storage, mainly because it does so much more.  I’m not going to spend a lot of time talking about features that are known, but quickly centralized backup is the best thing I’ve ever seen.  Just on that I’m either going to build or buy one of these for my parents, who have three PCs and can’t backup anything to save there lives.  Central storage is, of course, a big point as is expanding of storage easily.

Remote access is cool, being able to not only get to all of your files and media from any location but also being able to do things like Remote Desktop into any machine from any location.  Yes, you can do this right now but it just got a lot more simple.

Now lets get to the really cool stuff, integrating this with a home Media Center setup.  This is where Microsoft’s details get a little iffy.  They say that media can be accessed using Windows Media Connect, which is good but not great.  I’m trying to find out if content stored on a WHS will be able to be access from Media Center Extenders.  I’m hoping Microsoft just left this out from there talking points, because it’s hard to believe that it will not be able to be done.  When you think about it, it should work by just adding content from a network location within of Media Center.  I’ll hopefully get conformation on this sometime this week.

The second part of the Media Center is not addressed at all, and that’s having the WHS record TV and host the EPG.  If this was the case, we could do away with really needing a “Media Center PC” and move to a true Media Center Extender based setup.  This would be amazing, and yet again it would also leave SoftSled a perfect entry point for using PCs as Media Center Extenders.  Imagine having four CableCARD Tuners in this thing, with all the content recording to a single location for access on all Media Center Extenders in the house.

Since its Windows Server 2003 R2 based, I’m not sure we will see this directly from Microsoft.  However, there is a hack to install Media Center on Windows Server 2003, so we might be able to get it working.  Oh, did I mention that you can just Remote Desktop into the WHS and get your basic Explorer shell to mess around with?

One of the things I love about Media Center is that there are so many ways you can choose to use it.  You can put your Media Center PC in the Office as your main PC and have Media Center Extenders throughout your home, or you can put it in your Living Room and have a separate PC in your Office, and so on.  If Microsoft isn’t going to have WHS do my recording, then I think the next best step is to have to automatically move all my recorded content to the WHS nightly (or ever hourly).  If this is done without any user interaction, I personally would be alright with the WHS not doing the recording itself.  This way all of the content is still in one place and would still be accessible from any Media Center Extender in my home.

There are still some problems when relating to Media Center, however I think Windows Home Server will be a great product.  I would love to get into the beta for this thing, and as long as Media Center Extenders can access the content I will either be building or buying one once released.

Related: Alexander Grundner (eHomeUpgrade) Thoughts on Microsoft's Windows Home Server Announcement at CES 2007

Published Tue, Jan 9 2007 9:41 by chrisl
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Comments

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

In terms of serving to extenders the WHS is a UPnP media server so if the extenders also implement UPnP media renderers (clients) then they'll be able to receive media streams from the WHS in addition to receiving streams from a MCE PC.

Now the xbox360 implements both MCX and a UPnP media renderer so it can receive streams from either.

Does anyone know whether the V1 MCXs implement UPnP media renderers? And the new V2 MCXs?

That being said if you have a MCX (not an xbox360) wouldn't you prefer using the MCE interface anyway and not bother with another device UI to access UPnP media directly?

Now if you have an xbox360 and don't have a MCE PC on the network then UPnP media streaming from the WHS makes perfect sense. In addition if you have other UPnP media renderer devices, e.g. Roku audio devices etc. without a MCE PC to do UPnP media streaming they can also stream directly from the WHS.

And since WHS supports regular SMB shares there is no reason you can't redirect your MCE PC to store/retreive all it's content (music, tv recording, pictures etc.) on a WHS share.

MCX devices then will get the media streamed to them from the WHS share via the MCE PC. In this case you can get away with a really small MCE hard drive since all the content will live on the WHS.

If you leave the content on the MCE's hard drive then the nightly backups will back all the MCE content up to the WHS each night.

Cheers

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 10:14 AM by Sean McLeod

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

v2 Extenders will be UPnP also (Windows Media Connect).  The v1 Extenders (which aren't supported in Vista, FYI) are not UPnP.

I'd perfer to not use Windows Media Connect on any device, I'd want to use it as an Media Center Extender (MCX).

Your point about SMB shares is the same that I was making, that's why I'm hoping that MCX functionality was just not a talking point of Microsoft's (why would it not be though?).

I didn't think about the Recorded TV backup like that, but yeah I guess since it's stored on an NTFS drive then it will do just that.  :)

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 10:25 AM by chrisl

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

In terms of people worrying whether the WHS will be able to stream content directly to MCXs I'm not sure why this is a big deal.

How many people will have MCX devices without having a MCE PC? If there is a MCE PC then you can get the content from the WHS to the MCX device via the MCE PC.

Really currently the only time people will have a MCX device and no MCE PC will be people with xbox360 devices without a MCE PC. And in this case since the xbox360 implements a UPnP media renderer it can receive streams directly from the WHS.

Now in future I guess if TVs with embedded MCX units become popular then you may have more households having MCX devices without necessarily having a MCE PC.

Cheers

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 10:36 AM by Sean McLeod

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

Well, tons of people have MCX without having a Media Center PC.  Everyone with an Xbox 360 would come to mind.  Since Vista changes the whole notion of having to have a MCE PC, I think MCX usage would double this year.  You don't "need" an "MCE PC" anymore, just a Vista PC running Home Premium or Ultimate.

MCX usage is so much more robust then Windows Media Connect.  MCX of course doesn't use UPnP/Windows Media Connect to get it's content.

Engadget first reported that content stored on a WHS couldn't be accessed/streamed to MCX's.  Everything released by Microsoft just talks about Windows Media Connect.

In theory, there isn't a reason why it shouldn't work, but I'm still looking for conformation that it will.

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 10:44 AM by chrisl

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

I'm also left wondering how this is going to integrate with Media Center. It seems so close, but just not there.

I really like the centralised backup and remote access features, but I don't know if it's worth it for the price of having two always-on machines sucking power 24/7.

I don't think any usable Media Center integration will be possible with the first rev of WHS. But hopefully it is something they are planning on.

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 10:47 AM by Ross

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

Assuming this has intelligent power settings then why the concern of running this 24/7?  It should be able to hibernate when not in use and then wake when required - and in hibernate mode it would likely use no more than a few watts of power.

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:01 AM by Wayne

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

I don't see how this is any different than having a "server" PC running MCE with several hardrives connected to your home network.  It sounds like it might make things easier for the average person but I assume this is an excuse to just charge more for what you can already do now on your own?

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:09 AM by cncb

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

Yes, you can make one on you own.  You can use MCE 2005, Vista, or even Windows Server.  You can load backup software of your own, and you can share files, you can do remote access, etc.  However, a lot of people who even know how to put all of that together still don't want to for a home application.

I'd love to setup Server 2003 in my parents with AD to give them a single sign on and central file storage, but there is no way they can support that if something comes wrong.  WHS on the other hand, much easier.

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:16 AM by chrisl

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

It would be interesting for someone to analyze what this buys you versus adding these features to an exising MCE box.

For instance --

RDC to any machine on network:  

Fairly easy, a simple registry setting can change the RDP port to something other than 3389.  Install something like DD-WRT on your router and you can configure both VPN and port forwarding and you're ready to connect to each home network machine with the new RDP ports.  Configure something like DynDNS to make it even easier.  I've been doing this for several months.

Drive redundancy:

I guess no one really knows why they're not using RAID like everyone else.  You could argue that this is a drawback for Home Server.  But I haven't seen the specific features yet.

Client health monitor, imaging, etc:

There are a lot of apps out there that perform some or all of this.  For imaging I use this free and simple application:

http://www.runtime.org/dixml.htm

Connectivity with Windows Live:

This one's interesting.  I don't use Live, so I'm not sure how much of this is accomplishable already.  But it does seem kind of neat, conceptually at least.

Manage user accounts to other machines:

I don't have much experience with this, but it sounds interesting.  It also sounds a lot like functionality that I would assume is available in a domain controller (which I suppose isn't easily available on an MCE machine).

Serving to devices using Windows Media Connect:

Any PC can do this now.

I guess you could make a case for having all of this nicely packaged with a new OS.  But would you really want to buy and maintain another "always on" machine just for this convenience when you could add much (potentially all) of it to an existing MCE machine?

Just my two cents.  

Aaron

PS:  I'm sure I'm missing some features in the list above , so feel free to chime in.

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:20 AM by Aaron

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

It's really just the little things that make this product.

Yes, you can RDP into machines somewhat easy, but using Windows Live addressing you don't need to worry about creating some odd DynDNS name that you will never remember.

With RAID you do have to worry about specific things such as breaking a set correctly, re enabling a volume to regenerate correctly, etc.  None of it is really that hard, but I wouldn't want my Mom to have to worry about it.

Central file storage can be done by redirection of shares in Windows (using something like TweakUI) but this makes it easier.

Domain usage is out of the question for most, which would provide single user accounts and central file storage using Active Directory.  Not many homes really have enough user accounts/computers to warrant creation of a Domain environment.  Yeah, you can do it without problems running Server 2003 or like.

I think mixing the MCE bits with WHS is the best solution, basically what Aaron has put in a few of my other posts on the subject.

However, I think this is a good start, and if the price is right (say $400 for 500GB of so) then I will be buying one.  If the price is too high on the OEM devices, I'm hoping MSDN will have the software.  Then mini-ITX borads+hard drives will make a perfect WHS.

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:32 AM by chrisl

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

I believe once you start saying RDP, DynDNS, install backup software, etc. that is the point you are moving away from the main WHS intent.  Just this comment from Paul Thurrott's interview confirms this (http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/whs_preview.asp)

"This is not about making a geek happy," Microsoft product manager Todd Headrick...

While most nerds like us can whip together something similiar to WHS in a night most people can't.  I know many households with three to four computers, none of them being used as a server, and everyone constantly losing media and not doing backups.  For these people the right priced machine that just plugs into their Cable or DSL modem will be perfect.

I've noticed a few people suggesting setting a share from the WHS machine as the MCE recording location.  Does anyone know if this would actually work?  If you have say three tuners all recording at the same time while you're streaming content to your XBox 360... that's 4 SD or possibly HD streams all going at once over ethernet, plus of course everything else like uploading/downloading, browsing, etc.

Personally I'd like to see a headless recording unit that fits in style with a WHS machine.  One WHS with all your drives and another unit with all your tuners, both headless, while you stream all your content to MCX units.  While I'm dreaming both units should look exactly like a Western Digital MyBook, as I already have three of those and they'd look so sexy all lined up.

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 12:00 PM by Shawn Oster

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

Shawn, I disagree.  I think the only people who know that they need this functionality are the geeks.  And hence the catch-22.  

Heck, merely the word "server" in it's name will intimidate most of the home user market.

Aaron

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 1:02 PM by Aaron

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

"Well, tons of people have MCX without having a Media Center PC.  Everyone with an Xbox 360 would come to mind."

Which is what I pointed out and as I mentioned if you have an Xbox 360 then it includes a UPnP media renderer so you will be able to stream content directly from the WHS to the Xbox 360.

"Engadget first reported that content stored on a WHS couldn't be accessed/streamed to MCX's.  Everything released by Microsoft just talks about Windows Media Connect."

Well if MCX devices other than Xbox 360s don't include UPnP media renderer software then they won't be able to receive streaming media directly from the WHS.

In which case the only way they could access the media on the WHS is via a MCE PC (Vista or XP MCE).

Cheers

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 1:12 PM by Sean McLeod

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

That's the point, MCX doesn't use UPnP or Windows Media Connect.  We all know that you can stream to the Xbox 360 using Windows Media Connect, but that's not what we want.

I'm not sure if I'm not going through it right or if our words are just getting twisted.

Xbox 360 includes UPnP functionality with Windows Media Connect via the Dashboard.  We know WHS will stream to this just as your PC's to today.  All they are going to do is run Windows Media Connect on the WHS.  Simple, this is done and Microsoft has said it will work great (which it will).

The other side of the Xbox 360 is using the Media Center Extender (MCX) functions which doesn't stream via UPnP/Windows Media Connect.  We all want to know if you will be able to add the WHS shares via the MCX software on the Xbox 360. Microsoft hasn't said anything about this.  While it seems like it should be possible (as we can already add shares on a different Windows XP PC to be accessed on the Xbox 360 without problems) Engadget has reported that it will not work.

I want to know for sure if it will not work.  I don't want to exit the MCX software (which supports a whole lor more then Windows Media Connect) just to be able to access the data.

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 1:32 PM by chrisl

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

Even if WHS can't handle MCE tuner duties, this could still work nicely. If...

Sean Mc's SMB theory is correct.

I really can "roll my own" WHS.

WHS can have hot spares for potential drive failures, which I'm guessing it must.

WHS can hibernate when not in use or, even better, if it can function like unRAID, where not all drives have to be spinning all of the time.

Yeah, I can see it now. My self-built WHS sitting in my rack below my headless, 6 tuner MCE box - sporting matching/complimentary cases(we share the dream, Sean O.) - connected to my gigabit switch, serving up live/recorded TV, and all other content goodness, to MCXs scattered throughout my home. Meanwhile, WHS is pulling double duty as centralized backup/managment of all the "mere mortal" PCs in the house. Ahh...

Throw in a little native MCX DVD streaming support(especially the 360), managed copy HD-DVD streaming and a DirecTV/MCE solution(come on D*), and I'm a happy camper. Anything else is cake.

Please, someone tell me it's not time to wakeup and go to school. LOL

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 1:56 PM by Heath

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

Okay Chris maybe we're cross talking here a bit.

I assume that when Engadget claimed that you wouldn't be able to stream to MCX devices what they meant is that since WHS is a UPnP media server and since MCX devices currently (other than xbox 360) don't come with included UPnP media renderers you can't stream directly from WHS to a MCX.

That doesn't imply that you can't get the media from the WHS to the MCX device via a MCE PC via an SMB share on the WHS.

That's my reading of Engadget's comment plus reading other descriptions of WHS.

We should ping Charlie Kindel at MS or other MS contacts you have to confirm.

Cheers

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 2:08 PM by Sean McLeod

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

Oh, ok.  I got you this time, and we are thinking the same thing.

You have the WHS storing the content, the MCE PC communicating with the WHS, the MCX connected to the MCE PC, thus you have this below...

WHS--->>MCE PC--->>MCX

You took the Engadget article as you can't go directly from the WHS to the MCX (taking the MCE PC out of the picture).  Thus, you would have this below.  So you would be connecting the Extender directly to the WHS.

WHS--->>MCX

I took at the Engadget article as you can't go from WHS to MCE PC to connected Extender (WHS--->>MCE PC--->>MCX again).  Which doesn't really make since as an SMB share is an SMB share.

So, now we have this.  (In order words, the Extender still connects to the MCE PC.)

Should work: WHS--->>MCE PC--->>MCX

Should _not_ work: WHS--->>MCX

Overall, you should be able to access content stored on a WHS from MCX's.

I think that clears everything up.

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 2:34 PM by chrisl

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

Aaron, let's take a compromise, this is a great product for geeks to recommend to their non-geek friends.  I'm sure many of you like me are pressed into "helping a friend out" when it comes to setting up computers or fixing problems and everyone is hot on backup.  If I can say, "just buy this thing here" my life just got a lot easier.

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 3:35 PM by Shawn Oster

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

Hehehe I can live with that, Shawn!

By the way, the latest picture of this thing looks interesting.  I'm curious where they hide the redundant drives:

http://crunchgear.com/2007/01/08/windows-home-server-up-close-and-personal/

Aaron

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 3:49 PM by Aaron

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

I think that one was just a concept.  ;)

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=191

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 4:03 PM by chrisl

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

Here is a quick video with the WHS General Manager: http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=270965

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 4:50 PM by MrVitaminP

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

Wow, thanks for the video link. So, the user community is going to be able to add all kinds of functionality to this thing. I wonder what the "few things" are that they left out. Also, clears up the questions about writing MCE content directly to it and, at least, sharing with extenders through an MCE box.

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 6:31 PM by Heath

# Media Center v XBox & Media Connect » Andrew Grant - Live!

PingBack from http://www.andrewgrant.org/2007/01/09/media-center-v-xbox-media-connect.html

Tuesday, January 09, 2007 8:07 PM by Media Center v XBox & Media Connect » Andrew Grant - Live!

# re: My Thoughts on Windows Home Server

Any word on what kind of sustained read/write speeds this "not Raid" configuration is capable of?

Wednesday, January 10, 2007 4:45 PM by Heath