For the record...

re: For the record...

HiltonT — Wed, 20 Dec 2006 05:27:25 GMT

I just think that it is a shame that Vlad could drop a bomb like the email he wrote to the list (and put on his blog) and then leave the list so as not to have to respond to any posts in reply.

That's not the kind of thing someone with any community position (as Vlad has) should do as it will sully not only his reputation, but that of OWN.

I thought more of Vlad - thought he had more substance. Oh, well, bad judgement on my part, it seems.

re: For the record...

Tim Long — Wed, 20 Dec 2006 01:37:33 GMT

You may be right, I may be confusing my groups. But it is instructive to look at the SmallBizIT group and search for "this group is for". It is apparent that there is a de-facto "core group" who are essentially moderating the group to keep it on charter.

re: For the record...

Susan — Wed, 20 Dec 2006 01:05:34 GMT

Actually Mssmallbiz was never just a biz only group.. you are thinking of smallbizit which is still biz related.

Mssmallbiz has been both for a long time.

re: For the record...

Tim Long — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 23:53:51 GMT

The discussion going on right now in the SBS List is a social and technological pattern that has been well documented and there is an excellent summary in Clay Shirkey's paper, "A Group is its Own Worst Enemy" (http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html). Most Yahoo groups fall short of the basic requirements for a successful online community and this "spirited discussion" about what should and shouldn't be allowed on the group is a perfect example of the result.

You say that there is a cost to moderation (and I agree) but to some extent, that is the cost of doing business. In the long run, the cost of no moderation may be greater. For example, remember the MSSmallBiz group? Remember how that was supposed to deal only with "business" issues and not be a technical support group? Go there now and count how many technical support issues there are. Unless a group has a structure, they will eventually subvert themselves and go in an unintended direction.

I recommend reading Shirkey's paper.

A Group is its Own Worst Enemy

Tim Long — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 23:41:51 GMT

If you hang out in online communities long enough, you see certain behaviours happening again and again.

A Group is its Own Worst Enemy

Tim Long — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 23:25:28 GMT

If you hang out in online communities long enough, you see certain behaviours happening again and again.

re: For the record...

One for Vlad — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 20:34:21 GMT

desiderata - by max ehrmann

Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.

As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love, for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is perennial as the grass.

Take kindly to the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world.

Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.

Max Ehrmann c.1920

re: For the record...

Vlad Mazek — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 15:43:11 GMT

For the record, I did volunteer to moderate.

However, the my definition moderation and Susan's definition of moderation are not in agreement. I don't think a meaningless post should ever be allowed to waste the time and bandwidth of 3,000 people. Susan believes that moderation is just adding even more posts to the already meaningless thread.

Sorry, but that makes the group meaningless when it is being diluted by junk posts. Is it better to have fewer but more relevant posts or have a bunch of posts that might as well be ignored? I dunno for everyone else out there but no person will look through a 30 message thread just to find the one containing the answer among 29 pointless comments.

-Vlad