Hey, Directions on Microsoft? Aren't you going after the party not causing the problem?

re: Hey, Directions on Microsoft? Aren't you going after the party not causing the problem?

bradley — Tue, 28 Dec 2004 17:35:00 GMT

Susan and Mike,
Although I personally agree with you (My company does its best to implement "Best Practices" often recommended by Microsoft when building MS apps), the facts are though that most of the world does not attempt to write software well, they write software only well enough to satisfy their customer... And if the customer is not knowledgeable, then who is going to set the standards? And, it's questionable whether MS can ever enforce QoSoftware, there's already enough of a cry over how MS controls how things work already.

The facts are that as long as it's possible to write software badly, the majority of software will be written badly and this is because

a. The customer doesn't care about technical details. If the software delivers on its stated business purpose for the cheapest price and it works in someone else's network, then there is no good reason why it shouldn't work in his.

b. Microsoft like any other software vendor has to support backwards compatibility as much as is reasonably possible (ie. workgroup environments and apps which worked in those environments) but that always involves compromise. It means you cannot enforce the best and the latest always because the best and the latest often requires a complete break from older technologies. Remember "Bad" software wasn't always considered bad, and the apps you're describing worked perfectly in an older environment.

c. Microsoft has to be sensitive to how the bean-counters age investments. If MS were to force businesses to accellerate their amortizations more than they are willing or the tax code allows, you'll see all-out rebellion.

d. The educational system everywhere is very spotty, which is why I personally value Microsoft certifications more than a 4 year degree when I evaluate skillsets although it's not a hard and fast rule I go by. For years I couldn't find anyone with a diploma without certifications who could even build a simple website the way I expected it to be done. But, I highly doubt that anyone is in a position to enforce standards... only suggest a level of competence by whatever means is available.

On that last point, I believe whether MS intended to address or not, the new initiatives making technical information available publicly which we all have seen is also having an effect in that area. Dev students today have ample resources to learn "The Microsoft Way" on their own if they have self-initiative and something to compare information if they take formal education.

Addressing Susan's post about the winlogo program, the program only has as much value as others value it... and much of the world does not want to participate for various reasons. Most find the fees unjustifiable. I even worked on a project and rejected a free (at that time) Microsoft logo because its requirements would mean that I could not install the application over the Internet easily directly to the User's device(I still think that was a very stupid requirement). And, if the public's consciousness regarding the purpose and value of the logo isn't raised, it has no value. So, for instance when was the last time someone bought a Peachtree or Intuit and looked for the Winlogo before considering a purchase (or practically any other software for that matter)?

And lastly addressing Mike's point specifically... in the world of marketing, you deliver what the customer wants. Unfortunately, whether you believe bad programming should exist or not, as long as <the public> is willing to buy bad programming for whatever reason, criticizing the Dev industry just isn't going to accomplish anything. Unless you can raise the consciousness of the people who are willing to pay for software and provide the tools they need to make sensible decisions nothing will change.

(So, IMO going after anyone who writes less than perfect code isn't going to accomplish anything... You'd be missing the point the product delivers what the Consumer may want).

Tony

re: Hey, Directions on Microsoft? Aren't you going after the party not causing the problem?

bradley — Tue, 28 Dec 2004 01:04:00 GMT

Tony,
If you're developing software for a platform, you need to understand the platform - end of discussion. I don't care how hard your head is, or if you have a $1.00 development budget, this isn't hard stuff to figure out. If you don't have the skills, you shouldn't be a professional developer.

*Don't* install to the root of the C drive.
*Don't* write to the program's home folder.
*Don't* write to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE.
*Don't* write to the %SystemRoot% folder.

If you can't figure these things out on your own, or if they're "too expensive" to design, you shouldn't be writing software.

Just my $0.02.

re: Hey, Directions on Microsoft? Aren't you going after the party not causing the problem?

bradley — Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:47:00 GMT

And Intuit hardly has a low budget!

re: Hey, Directions on Microsoft? Aren't you going after the party not causing the problem?

bradley — Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:47:00 GMT

http://www.microsoft.com/winlogo/software/swoverview.mspx

Peachtree 2004 and 2005 runs in user mode.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/catalog/default.aspx?xslt=categoryl3&subid=22&sortcolumn=status&sort=descending&pgn=01f85309-9ce5-497d-ba6b-9efa3ba0ed9c&pageSet=2&page=11

Check out the Windows catalog and there are vendor apps that have raised the bar.

re: Hey, Directions on Microsoft? Aren't you going after the party not causing the problem?

bradley — Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:42:00 GMT

Susan,
You just unwittingly buttressed a long-standing criticism of Microsoft, that it's too interested creating an OS that best supports only Microsoft applications.

Remember, no matter how much good information Microsoft makes available to the world, there will always be a very large number of developers who won't follow every bit of Microsoft's gospel no matter what. Reasons are varied... hardheadedness, people on low budgets (especially in the SMB space), poor teachers, people who lack talent, you name it.

And, some Dev aren't directly to blame... There are many ways to go wrong in varying degrees (should Dev have the freedom to make mistakes?) and those who build to the Java environment (or other third party environments, databases, etc) are completely dependent on the environment delivering what it promises.

Anyone who ignores the rest of the world outside of Microsoft won't understand the forces at work completely.

Not to worry though... too much for those who have the patience... since for many years now Microsoft's OS products have been undergoing an architecture renaissance, loosening the concept that the OS and the application must be tightly integrated.

Some will say "Microsoft has seen the light." Personally, I think that Microsoft isn't just emulating the competition, Microsoft is moving towards an architecture that is the best of both worlds... tight integration which enables the OS to continue to better manage resources more efficiently while <virtualizing> the application environments so that applications can think they have all the rights and permissions they need while not compromising anything else. A first generation solution that supports legacy applications can be run in virtualized environments like VirtualPC, but I look forward to the day when we leave all COM behind and dotNET is everywhere.

Tony

Re: Hey, Directions on Microsoft? Aren't you going after the party not causing the problem?

bradley — Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:18:00 GMT

Well, sure Mike, you're right. It should be every software developer. My point was based on the idea that small ISV's could move quicker (and start from a clean code base) to provide products that handle non-admin users correctly.

re: Hey, Directions on Microsoft? Aren't you going after the party not causing the problem?

bradley — Mon, 27 Dec 2004 19:25:00 GMT

*Every* software developer should step up to the plate to provide a solution to the problem, Roger, not just ISVs.

The problem is that everyone else thinks that this is a Microsoft problem. "They should make their OS easier to run as non-admin.", just as the article pointed out. Very few people understand that it's not the OSes fault that Craptacular Poker 2004 requires extra rights because some moron developer somewhere decided that the Program Files folder was a great place to store the saved games.

We, as a community, need to start getting the word out that people shouldn't tolerate crap software anymore. We should send back any software that doesn't abide by the rules (Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 included), and demand a refund until they can do the ungodly small amount of homework to make better design decisions. We should convince businesses not to buy this crap until it's fixed - "why should I have to change the security settings in my group policy? It's *your* software that's broken!"

It's really too bad that there aren't enough of us to actually make a difference... isn't it?

re: Hey, Directions on Microsoft? Aren't you going after the party not causing the problem?

bradley — Mon, 27 Dec 2004 17:05:00 GMT

Have you ever gotten it right ...

I am a the IS manager at a mid-size manufacturing company, and applications that don't run properly without administrative privilege are one of the banes of my existence.

And, what really BURNS me, is that it is nothing but poor programming or poor design.

As far as these apps, add FedEx Ship Manager

re: Hey, Directions on Microsoft? Aren't you going after the party not causing the problem?

bradley — Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:22:00 GMT

Susan doesn't this strike you as an opportunity for small ISV's to provide software that solves this problem? I know you're not really a programmer but it's not hard to write software that works well as a standard or restricted user. The problem is all the developers that worked for years as administrator and the huge base of existing code that would require expensive and time-consuming re-engineering to make them standard-user-friendly. It's much less costly (in the short term anyway) to just tell the user to change their permissions.