[There's a reason that Yoda is the unofficial mascot of SBS. Size indeed matters not.] Community on your terms - THE OFFICIAL BLOG OF THE SBS "DIVA"
Mon, Jun 9 2008 17:03 bradley

Community on your terms

Earlier today I read a post about a community that is nearly dead.  For many years they had monthly meetings at UCLA, they had topics and speakers and had a steering committee.  All of the things that make a community healthy.  I don't live in their area of the country to know exactly what went wrong but over time, meeting attendance diminished, people got busy, technology help was able to be obtained from other resources and topics got harder to plan.

http://www.calcpa.org/Content/24526.aspx  So I got word that there just may not be a WTUG next year.  (and yes Vlad, CPAs do use technology).

So when a community that was the icon of the CPA tech world flounders, how can the rest of us that deal with technology communities ensure that we don't do likewise?  How did it decline?  I'd argue because we took it for granted and didn't feed it with communication when it needed it.  We didn't give feedback for content, nor for speakers.  We all just assumed that it would stick around.  And now the Los Angeles area CPAs are in jeopardy of losing it because everyone didn't urge the next guy to give feedback when asked.

http://blogs.technet.com/kevin_beares/archive/2008/06/09/where-is-the-love-the-sbs-community-survey-is-floundering-with-very-few-responses.aspx#3068611

When I read David's response to Kevin, a chill went up my spine.  With apologies to David, but I think he's making a dangerous statement.  He says "I have also completed the survey but I won't recommend that my peers do the same. "

David, be careful with that.  In fact the more you disagree with something or don't like something I'd urge you to do exactly the opposite.  Community needs fertilizer and love and right now your statement concerns me a lot that you would actively urge your peers to not show to Kevin Beares the respect he deserves.  Even if you don't like the survey, the fact that Kevin is one of the most die hard advocates of both community and independent opinions around means that I will want to support one of his projects.  If I want to add additional comments in the open box that is there, I will, but sometimes, you give feedback even when it's not wrapped up in the package you want just to ensure that the program as a whole gets the message of the overall health of the external community ...meaning us out here.

It's people like Kevin Beares that give me the safety net to say what I think and feel.  It's people like him that empower the honesty.

Even if it means that you post "This sucks" or "Gawd I hate connect" in that open box, but apathy and not filling out the survey is actually worse than anger.

So if anyone else thinks that the survey could be better, say so... but SAY SO and don't just walk on by.

Being silent, or urging others to be silent is the worst thing you can do.

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# re: Community on your terms

Monday, June 09, 2008 7:57 PM by Vlad Mazek

Wow, it sucks when I'm right doesn't it?

-Vlad

# Vlad Mazek - Vladville Blog » Blog Archive » I cannot stress this enough. It is ALL about the tshirt!

Monday, June 09, 2008 8:06 PM by Vlad Mazek - Vladville Blog » Blog Archive » I cannot stress this enough. It is ALL about the tshirt!

Pingback from  Vlad Mazek - Vladville Blog  » Blog Archive   » I cannot stress this enough. It is ALL about the tshirt!

# re: Community on your terms

Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:33 AM by David Schrag

Assume for the sake of argument that the survey sucks. (Not Kevin, just the survey. I don't know Kevin but people I know and believe say he's a great guy.) So again, assume for the sake of argument that the survey sucks.

Which is a better scenario: We have a sucky survey that 5,000 people responded to, giving us the impression that the survey has some validity? Or we have a sucky survey that only 250 people responded to, meaning that we might as well toss the "results" in the trash and start thinking of better ways to get community feedback than a sucky survey?

If Kevin/Microsoft equate low response rates to a flawed instrument with apathy, they're making a big mistake.

And BTW, I didn't "actively urge my peers" to do anything. I simply refrained from independently promoting it.

# The Schlog » Blog Archive » Survey soapbox

Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:43 AM by The Schlog » Blog Archive » Survey soapbox

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# re: Community on your terms

Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:51 AM by bradley

The better scenerio is to let Microsoft know that Kevin has 5,000 people that tell Kevin that his survey giving ability sucks rather than Kevin going back to his boss saying that "gee, there's only 250 people in this so called SBS community so why should we bother with trying to engage them when they aren't even there in the first place?"

No, David, silence is indeed the same thing as not asking your peers to participate.

You are a leader in Boston.  Your leadership speaks louder than you think.

Silence is not the answer here.

The "validity" of this, in the manner in which you want the survey to be done in, is quite frankly irrelevant.  What is more relevant is that 5,000 of us went to that big open white box and said whatever we wanted to.

Kevin and layers of Microsoft management above Kevin do read that.    

If only 250 of us community members even care, why the heck should Microsoft listen to us in the first place?  We're a rounding error with that number of responses.  That's basically what silence is saying here.  

If we don't care to fill in Kevin's survey, it gives Microsoft all the more reason to not care about us.

# re: Community on your terms

Tuesday, June 10, 2008 7:19 AM by David Schrag

There were no questions about "what did you think of the survey?"

If Microsoft wants to know whether we "care" there is ample evidence. How many SBSC members are there? That's caring. How many unique visitors are there to microsoft.public.windows.sbs (or whatever the name is)? How many people read this blog? How many attend SMB-related conferences? How many attended webcasts? And so on, and so on.

If an annual survey like this somehow becomes the official measure of the SBS user community's interest, satisfaction, or anything else, that would be very sad.

# re: Community on your terms

Tuesday, June 10, 2008 8:07 AM by Christian

So isn't the question really "Why haven't more than 250 people responded?"  This year's survey looked just like last year's, from what I can tell (not qualified or calculated).

It should not require an email blast from David to prod people to fill out the survey.

It should not require a tee shirt from Vlad or anyone else to fill out the survey.

My point is that (and this is not a criticism in the least) the MVP's have a much larger picture of what Kevin's behind the scenes work brings to the SBSC from Microsoft because they have a dialogue with him.  I, on the otherhand have no clue about how last year's survey was received (other than what I read in Kevin's rebuttal to David and Vijay), deconstructed and used as a tool to enhance Microsoft's interaction with the community.

Most people, if they cannot feel or see a tangible result (say, an article or white paper at minimum posting results) will simply not return and take the time.

I'm looking at Kevin's blog now, and the last post regarding the 2007 Survey was on August 3rd.  I do not see any type of followup that shows the results of the survey.  There needs to be some sort of conclusion to these surveys.  Discussions with the MVP's is not enough.  A final white paper or post indicating the types of feedback received from the communitly and Microsoft's conclusion seems like a great first step

# re: Community on your terms

Thursday, June 12, 2008 1:04 PM by Kevin Beares

Read my latest post. I have posted responses to all of David's questions/concerns about the survey there as well as posted additional results / conclusions adjustments we made from previous surveys. I could have done a better job of posting more of the results from last years survey, but they were a little political at the time. The number one problem identified was quality of support. That basically was the delta from the previous year's survey. I shared the conclusions in my blog comment about what the data stated about CSS last year.

I will do my best to share the raw numbers and comments this time so that people can see what I see.

Sorry for being stingy with the results last year.

Listen, the survey has some flaws, but seriously, constructive feedback people. Sucks is not constructive. If you want to have a conf call / live meeting work shop to design the next version of the survey I will set it up. Invite whoemever you want.

The central point of interest to me in the survey is the raw data and not so much the numerical ratings. The ratings are simply indicators of a trend if one even exists.

Please be specific, I cannot change a survey based on descriptors, like sucks. :)

Thanks for listening.

Kevin

# re: Community on your terms

Thursday, June 12, 2008 11:58 PM by David Schrag

Kevin, I hope that your comments about the word "suck" were not directed at me. I only wrote "Assume for the sake of argument that the survey sucks" AFTER both you and Susan had introduced the term. I was just feeding off your energy. You'll see in blogs.technet.com/.../where-is-the-love-the-sbs-community-survey-is-floundering-with-very-few-responses.aspx and in all of my subsequent comments that I've had very specific feedback about the survey's shortcomings.