Is VB the nggr of programming languages ?

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Thu, 27 Mar 2008 04:24:11 GMT

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Now the entire Windows Live team says f*ck you VB

@ Head — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 00:17:23 GMT

Yesterday I reported how the Windows Live Search team posted samples in 5 different languages, but not

Live Search gives VB the finger

@ Head — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 03:40:01 GMT

Microsoft's Live Search API team have released samples in Java, PHP, C#, Python and Ruby, but no

democratize ?

@ Head — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 01:22:08 GMT

In what seems to be the latest buzz word at Microsoft, seems everything is being democratised. I first

democratize ?

@ Head — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 01:21:45 GMT

In what seems to be the latest buzz word at Microsoft, seems everything is being democratised. I first

re: Is VB the nggr of programming languages ?

bill — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 06:58:13 GMT

Thanks Anthony :) BTW; the censoring of your post to produce *** instead of the "n-word" is something the host does and is not within my control

re: Is VB the nggr of programming languages ?

Anthony D. Green, MCPD — Fri, 23 Nov 2007 22:25:10 GMT

Wow,

Great title. As a representative of the black community I extend you a full pardon for your censored use of the word ***. I myself will make no attempt to censor it - not because I'm black - but because I think it's ridiculous for adults to go around cowaring at words like school children (who interestingly enough are not nearly so bashful).

That aside, about a year ago I was talking to an Israeli friend of mine about the language war and the comparison between being jewish and being a VB developer. It's not about orders of magnitude - it's about random, concentrated, reckless hatred. People just hate you and what you do and how you do it for stupid reasons like "I hate the word Dim" and "my right pinky doesn't get enough exercise in VB". Maybe this is my fault for taking it so personally.

As a VB developer I sometimes feel hated. Not because of something I've done - in fact I'm very well regarded in almost all my programming circles by C# and VB developers alike (I'm multilingual) - but as a VB developer I feel that the developer community at large does not love me and does not want me to succeed. Microsoft isn't nearly as vocal about it as the legions of semicolon wielding bigots they pander to but it doesn't make their actions (and inactions) any less hurtful. They support VB use as an uphill battle and an upstream swim. Version after version they deliver a smack in the face to VB devs everywhere with only the occasional nod of approval and to be honest I'm very tired of it.

The irony is, I don't feel nearly this bad about being a black man in America.

re: Is VB the nggr of programming languages ?

Bill Booth — Sun, 28 Oct 2007 00:29:17 GMT

Excellent article. I hope the title acts as an attention getter to get more people to read it. Unfortunately, I don't think this or any other article will change any attitudes at Microsoft.

VB has been one of Microsoft’s most successful products. Microsoft’s thanks to those that have invested their time with it is to hold them in contempt at best. I am sick of their supercilious attitude.

De l'avenir de VB .NET (encore et encore)

Richard Clark — Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:14:57 GMT

Autant vous le dire tout de suite, ca chauffe en ce moment dans la communauté VB .NET. Beaucoup s'interrogent

re: Is VB the nggr of programming languages ?

bill — Thu, 25 Oct 2007 03:18:57 GMT

Hi Shane,

Even the existence of any programming langue is totally insignificant compared to the issues of civil rights, of that there should be no doubt. To talk about prejudice within programming languages is not an attempt to draw comparisons of orders of magnitude to human rights. Microsoft terms the way they treat languages as "citizenship". The inclusion of a language in Visual Studio holds no comparison to the struggle for the right to vote people are fighting today in the world. The whole "citizenship" usage in terms of programming language is rhetoric especially when it isn't accompanied by any bills of rights or any solid policies to ensure they are treated equally.

re: Is VB the nggr of programming languages ?

Shane — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:01:48 GMT

Drawing analogies between inconvenienced Visual Basic programmers and groups of people fighting for equality and civil rights is inappropriate, borderline offensive, and makes it hard to take you seriously. It makes your tiny issue look even tinier. You do yourself a disservice by framing your argument the way you did.

re: Is VB the nggr of programming languages ?

bill — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:14:32 GMT

Thanks Mike :)

The sad thing is it really wouldn't take much to address many of the issues. All they really need is a central team that can provide translation and education services to the other teams.

re: Is VB the nggr of programming languages ?

Mike McIntyre — Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:00:55 GMT

Bill,

Thank you for standing up for Microsoft's second-class citzens - its Visual Basic customers.

Microsoft makes it harder for its Visual Basic customers to learn and utilize technologies such as XNA, the .NET Micro Framework, and HealthVault when it decides to not provide VB examples in the SDKs for those products.

Why can't Microsoft tell its employees to stop ridiculing VB and VB developers - and make it stick? This has been going on for years now and from what I have personally experienced, its getting worse - not better. What a strange concept for a public corporation - allowing employees to alienate customers. How much does that contribute to the bottom-line?

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people » Is VB the n*gg*r of programming languages ? — Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:41:05 GMT

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re: Is VB the nggr of programming languages ?

bill — Tue, 23 Oct 2007 03:31:08 GMT

Thanks Nick, Steele, Bill and Chris :)

BTW: I may disagree with some of you on the interpretation of the n word, but all of you have managed to look past that difference and see the major issue.

re: Is VB the nggr of programming languages ?

bill — Tue, 23 Oct 2007 03:27:07 GMT

Hi "mind",

I think you'll find the answer to your original question in your own reply ;)

re: Is VB the nggr of programming languages ?

bill — Tue, 23 Oct 2007 03:26:14 GMT

Hi Alun,

It's worth making a note each time you come across it. There's only a handful of times that samples don't translate well form one language into the other. On one hand there's late binding with COM, and on the other side of the equation there's pointers and unsafe code.

For the most part I think you'll find that any leaning towards VB will be in the "How to" areas, and any cutting edge or "advanced" technologies will be in the C# camp. That's the way it seems Microsoft attempts to divide them :(

re: Is VB the nggr of programming languages ?

bill — Tue, 23 Oct 2007 02:49:36 GMT

a friend just said this to me on IM which I really think is worth repeating here:

"times being what they are, i don't see how your message doesn't get lost in the title of your message"

re: Is VB the nggr of programming languages ?

bill — Tue, 23 Oct 2007 02:41:17 GMT

Hey Bill,

Don't get the Jones syndrome slur ? A quick google on it just showed it as a rare disease. Next best match was Jessica Jones comics. I didn't see it but wasn't it also one of those religious groups ? Waco ?? Anyway, I think that probably just shows anything can be used as a slur and/or a racial slur when referring to someone.

As far as the n*gg*r term goes, I'm beginning to see that some folks don't see past the racial slur aspect even when used in a context that couldn't possibly be interpreted as such. Instead it's like they have a fear of the word. A friend from the USA told me yesterday that "only black people and comedians are allowed to use it". Even writing that just now I'm shaking my head in utter disbelief. (BTW: I thought it was politically incorrect to refer to Afro-Americans as "black people" ?) At no time in history has the n*gg*r word ever been more popular in American music and movies. Afro-Americans are also re-shaping the word to be a term of endearment, a greeting amongst people with a common interest/ancestry. Yet for some folks, despite the dictionary definitions, www.merriamwebster.com/dictionary***, they can't tolerate a white person using that word. Ironically it seems to be middle class white people who object to it most.

So here we have a word that, where, because some folks used it as a racial slur, American's are trying to stop people all over the world using. So what word do you use to talk about the oppression and inequalities that Afro-Americans have faced (and in ways continue to face) in the USA ?

BTW: The irony of all this is quite surreal. I've used a term, correctly at least in my opinion. Since the issue was raised with me, I've looked at the word and it's uses a lot. I cannot see how any clear thinking person could interpret my usage of the term any different than usage (3) in merriamwebster. But what I've seen from a few is the heart of the problem. Some folks think that the word is the problem. It isn't. It's the way it's used, and it's the way people treat other people that's the real issue. Racial and cultural intolerances arrow vision, seeking to inflict or punish one lot of peoples because of differences etc. Sadly it's been those who have claimed that my uttering the term means they should ban me, kind of displays those cultural intolerances all over. In their puritan strive to be PC, they inflict the same crimes all over again.

re: Is VB the nggr of programming languages ?

Steele — Tue, 23 Oct 2007 00:22:50 GMT

Rock On Bill

You hit the nail on the head, hopefully a little controversy will bring out some action!

Is VB the n*gg*r of programming languages ?

PaulStovell.NET » VB.NET - Where’s Action<T> support?

Now the entire Windows Live team says f*ck you VB

Live Search gives VB the finger

democratize ?

democratize ?

re: Is VB the n*gg*r of programming languages ?

re: Is VB the n*gg*r of programming languages ?

re: Is VB the n*gg*r of programming languages ?

De l'avenir de VB .NET (encore et encore)

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Is VB the nggr of programming languages ?

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